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Deity BP-TX 2 Announced


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1 hour ago, Patrick Tresch said:

YESSSS!!!

 

(Is it possible to record 24bit 96khz or only 24bit 48khz over USB-C?

Edit: Just recieved the confirmation that it also records 24bit/48khz. )

 

 

The BP-TRX records BWF with TC in 24/48.

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we advise 4, but technically it can be higher (some use it with 6 channels). We also are sending a back (remote controlling) over a different channel. So that let us say, 4 channels of TX, means 8 cha

There is one on the Connect kit user page, scroll down and click on support. The site is in overhaul at the moment and the rest will be added to the new one.   We do not use the traditiona

The BP-TRX will come in a solo version, a "timecode kit" (2x BP-TRX with accessories like TC cables, exact cables/bundle will be disclosed soon) and a "deluxe kit" (hard case, DUO-RX, 2X BP TRX, 2x W.

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8 minutes ago, Richard Thomas said:

With the USB recording, will the BP-TRX work as USB host device? As far as I know the M2D2 will only send or receive audio as a USB slave, if they're both slaves it won't work

🤔 I guess that's analogue IN only then.

 

When using BP-TRX with an iphone; will it record as well as send to phone? eg you could stream or record (mp3 for fast upload) with phone while still recording a HQ back-up on the BP-TRX?

 

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1 hour ago, Andrew From Deity said:

Actually 19ms comes out to 3 meters, or the length of an ENG boom pole. And if your wearing noise isolating IEMs... it doesn't matter. 

 

I know errors happen, but a manufacturer of technical sound gear should really double check before correcting somebody on the speed of sound.

 

343 m/s * 0.019s = 6.5m  (at 20deg C)

 

still, congrats for the BP-TX-2 ; )

and while you're here, could you clarify if the unit can record from the USB-C as an audio input?

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5 hours ago, Andrew From Deity said:

Actually 19ms comes out to 3 meters, or the length of an ENG boom pole. And if your wearing noise isolating IEMs... it doesn't matter. 


Incidentally, Zaxcom used the same argument for their boom transmitters and I thought it was already strange then, but here I really don’t see the point. Unless you mean a boom op would wear it with audio from the cart? But then there would be the added delay of whatever boom transmitter they’re using plus the input->output delay of the recorder. By the time the boom op or anyone else could hear the audio it could be delayed by as much as 25ms or more. Now that would be noticeable. But if used from a cabled boom mic this would be better, but then again the boom comparison again doesn’t make much sense. 

 

On 4/22/2020 at 1:32 AM, Allen Rowand said:

Can the international versions of products like this be brought into the US by an individual? 

As others have said, yes that’s possible, but it would still be illegal as it would still violate a copyright and possibly not be FCC certified 

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9 minutes ago, Constantin said:

As others have said, yes that’s possible, but it would still be illegal as it would still violate a copyright


Deity products do not violate any copyrights, either in the USA or elsewhere in the world. 

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:


Deity products do not violate any copyrights, either in the USA or elsewhere in the world. 


 Please note that by copyright I meant patent, of course. 
Had a simultaneous discussion on Facebook about posting a newspaper article...

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2 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

All will be FCC certified. 

 


ok, so they would only be in violation of Zaxcom’s patent. To be honest, I don’t know how this works legally. But normally if you get caught at the border with fake products or rip-offs you could lose that product. The chances are slim though, but that’s strictly a legal point of view as I understand it

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42 minutes ago, Constantin said:

ok, so they would only be in violation of Zaxcom’s patent. To be honest, I don’t know how this works legally. But normally if you get caught at the border with fake products or rip-offs you could lose that product. The chances are slim though, but that’s strictly a legal point of view as I understand it

 

well, those are not fake products or rip-offs, those are perfectly legal genuine products that if they bought outside of the USA have an extra feature enabled.

 

As everybody here I'm not a patent lawyer, but I find it hard to believe that if I get granted a local patent here in Germany, I can forbid everybody to enter the country carrying a device that might violate this patent.

I mean, how would that even work? If I visit some friends in Australia, buy a coffee maker with a cool grinding mechanism there, would I have to check if this grinding mechanism violates any German patent before I return? Not only is this impractical, but totally impossible for a single person to check all foreign bought items agains the home country database of filed patents.

 

Now, if I want to import said coffee grinder commercially and sell them here in Germany that's pretty certainly going to be a violation.

 

just some thoughts

chris

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:


ok, so they would only be in violation of Zaxcom’s patent. To be honest, I don’t know how this works legally. But normally if you get caught at the border with fake products or rip-offs you could lose that product. The chances are slim though, but that’s strictly a legal point of view as I understand it

You confuse it with counterfeit. 

36 minutes ago, chrismedr said:

 

well, those are not fake products or rip-offs, those are perfectly legal genuine products that if they bought outside of the USA have an extra feature enabled.

 

As everybody here I'm not a patent lawyer, but I find it hard to believe that if I get granted a local patent here in Germany, I can forbid everybody to enter the country carrying a device that might violate this patent.

I mean, how would that even work? If I visit some friends in Australia, buy a coffee maker with a cool grinding mechanism there, would I have to check if this grinding mechanism violates any German patent before I return? Not only is this impractical, but totally impossible for a single person to check all foreign bought items agains the home country database of filed patents.

 

Now, if I want to import said coffee grinder commercially and sell them here in Germany that's pretty certainly going to be a violation.

 

just some thoughts

chris

Patent enforcement is a civil matter. Not much to do with border control, state/law enforcement etc. 

 

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No, both are not correct. I can only speak to the EU situation, but in the US it will be very similar. 
Legally, if you bring (import) something into the EU you become the de facto manufacturer, including legal responsibilities. That doesn’t mean that you have the intent to sell it, it would be the same if you bought for yourself. The exception might be if you can prove that you bought said product for your private leisure use, although even then a patent violation would be illegal. But you‘ll have a hard time arguing that a device such as the Deity is for private use only. 
If Zaxcom were a german company they could ask the „Zoll“ (customs agency) to act on their behalf and confiscate all products violating their patents. I didn’t say it would mean a counterfeit product, but in the eyes of the law a patent violation is akin to a rip-off. 
 

In Germany at least this would not be a civil matter, border violations of any kind are federal crimes. 
This is different from challenging a patent, that would be a civil matter.

 

By the way, I apologise if anyone got the impression that I thought the Deity was a rip-off. I think it looks like a pretty cool product, possibly the first I might consider buying from this company. I‘m certain that everything is perfectly legal and by the book with this device. I really did not intend to create a different impression. Also didn’t want to digress so much from the actual topic, just pointing out to the person who asked that there could be a very slim risk when buying this in another country and taking it to the US. I know also that a lot of people do it, and it should be fine

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so what you are saying is, next time I buy something abroad, I have to check every possible related german patent to see if I could possibly infringe some local patent?

sounds rather impractical (or rather impossible) to me.

 

what's more, even looking at the local patent database, all those patents are just claims, and it's not sure if they are justified and will hold up if challenged (this is from reading up 2 hours on patents for a personal project idea).

meaning maybe a german company A claims they have a patent on a specific mechanism of grinding coffee, and the australian manufacturer B might not to sell a machine with a similar mechanism here in Germany, because it's too much risk/hassle.

But how would a border police guy know from the patent file and looking at the coffee machine if this claim is justified or not?

It's possible that I can get sued by company B if they find out I imported the coffee machine, but until things end up in court nobody would really know if it's legal or illegal to import the thing.

 

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13 minutes ago, chrismedr said:

so what you are saying is, next time I buy something abroad, I have to check every possible related german patent to see if I could possibly infringe some local patent?

sounds rather impractical (or rather impossible) to me.

 

As I understand it, you can BUY anything you want from wherever you want but if you USE a patented product in a country that is in the jurisdiction of that patent, you are in fact in violation of the patent. It is not a border issue or a customs issue as others have explained, but it is a legal issue (and I will add that it is an ethical issue as well). It is true that it is highly unlikely that the company that holds the patent would go to the extent and the expense of litigating this civil issue with an individual. As far as whether any individual has to " check every possible related german patent " this is why it is incumbent on the dealer or distributor of the product to inform the buyer. With that knowledge in hand it is then one's own personal responsibility and decision to either abide by the law, or break the law by using a product protected by the patent. I will add that any individual or company has the right to challenge a patent which they might deem to be "justified" --- there is a whole legal procedure, quite involved and quite costly, to do this. This sort of challenge was what Lectrosonics initiated in an effort to nulify the Zaxcom patent, and the Patent Court upheld the validity of Zaxcom's patents. It was a lengthy and expensive process.

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There is a long tradition of individual sound folks importing equipment on their own to avoid various legal barriers to them buying the gear through normal channels in the USA.  Many of us early DAT adopters got grey-market machines because of this, there were many hassles around Neumann mics and parts in the '80s etc, and today there are people getting their own Sonosax, Audio Ltd, and Tascam equipment through foreign contacts etc.  There are issues around service for equipment gotten this way, and extra hassles for sure, so most people don't bother.   But it is possible on an individual basis.

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1 hour ago, Jeff Wexler said:

As I understand it, you can BUY anything you want from wherever you want but if you USE a patented product in a country that is in the jurisdiction of that patent, you are in fact in violation of the patent.


I specifically read up on this and yes, you can request your customs agency (or you go via the patent office in fact) to hold up or seize certain products right at the border. 
The idea surely was to keep counterfeits from entering a country and it gets used at NAB or NAMM time a lot, when chinese companies come to town with their products. This is often about any aspect of a product. Usually they really look like another product or whatever. If you make wrong demand for a border seize, though, you’ll have to compensate everyone. 

 

 

1 hour ago, chrismedr said:

But how would a border police guy know from the patent file and looking at the coffee machine if this claim is justified or not?

 
They have a picture and description of the original and they don’t decide the case there and then. That’s where the courts come in. But the initiative for the seize would have to come from the local manufacturers and they would provide all info. 
So with your salt grinder example: you buy it for your own private pleasure and you won’t have a problem. A salt grinder is easily justifiable as private. But if you have a case of them it’s another story. Customs agents will often work on a hunch. But if you’re a manufacturer bringing your product into a new market of course you would have to make sure you’re not stepping on anyone’s patens. Or you hope for a goodwill approach from the patent holder. This is, I believe, what happened when Zaxcom asked Tascam to not sell a certain version of the DR-10 in the US because they felt it would infringe on their patent. 

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A couple questions:

 

Will Deity's international versions have FCC approval? And what happens in the probably unlikely event that you get caught using a wireless device without FCC approval? Anyone have an international version of Audio Ltd's A10-TX, and if so does it have a FCC stamp?

 

Will firmware updates be georestricted? Like if you try to download and install an update from a US-based IP address, will Deity give you the US version and would that disable the international features? 

 

Again, I'm not trying to go all FUD. Just curious how this will all play out.

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4 minutes ago, Jim Feeley said:

A couple questions:

 

Will Deity's international versions have FCC approval? And what happens in the probably unlikely event that you get caught using a wireless device without FCC approval? Anyone have an international version of Audio Ltd's A10-TX, and if so does it have a FCC stamp?

 

Will firmware updates be georestricted? Like if you try to download and install an update from a US-based IP address, will Deity give you the US version and would that disable the international features? 

 

Again, I'm not trying to go all FUD. Just curious how this will all play out.


Vincent said earlier that all version are FCC approved. I once had the opposite situation: I came by a Lectrosonics receiver with the US deviation and it did not have any CE markings. Of course, I sold it posthaste 

 

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I really wish the mixing up of issues regarding counterfeit items, customs issues, and the issue of selling and using products that have patents awarded, could be kept separate. These are separate issues and are generally not dealt with in the same manner. 

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4 hours ago, Constantin said:

They have a picture and description of the original and they don’t decide the case there and then. That’s where the courts come in. But the initiative for the seize would have to come from the local manufacturers and they would provide all info. 

 

as other have mentioned I think you're mixing things up.

obviously if company B copies the coffee grinder of company A nearly identically, that's easy to spot, and border controls can hold these products up and even destroy it (I know of a chinese counterfeit labeled back bag that was destroyed when the buyer wanted to pick it up).

 

I was speaking of an example involving a coffee grinding *mechanism*, so the machine could look completely different but something hidden inside of the machine B could possibly (or not) violate company A patents. maybe company A is not even aware of company B, and vice versa because they are on completely different markets (ie. the Australian maker never planned to export to Germany and never bothered to check their patent database).

 

I agree that it's also a question of ethics, so in this specific thread case we *do* know that there is a previous US patent and that it most likely also applies to this new transmitter.

However, there could well be cases where it's impossible to know for me personally if an item that I bought abroad could violate any local patent claims if brought back (both because I don't know about the specific grinding mechanism, and even less if that patent is enforceable at all or invalid) .  

 

 

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