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Paul Garafola

Schoeps Cut-1 and Cut-60 | Any direct experience with BOTH?

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Hi guys and girls!

 

Quick question regarding the Schoeps CMC6 (or CMC1)/41 + the Cut-1 and then later with the Cut-60.

 

IF you have used the Cut-1 and know it well....and then tried or switched to the newer Cut-60.....

did you happen to notice any difference at all in sound quality?

 

(I know there shouldn't be, given that it's just a cut filter - but still... I'm curious)

 

Thanks.

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23 minutes ago, Trey LaCroix said:

I didn’t. It just sounded like the cut 1 on the 60hz setting. Love the cut 60!

 

Thanks, Trey. 

 

60hz setting?  The lowest setting as it appears on the Cut-1 is 70Hz, but obviously I'm misunderstanding that because even in the Schoeps manual, it says ....  "...CUT 1 (cut off frequency = 60 Hz)". 

 

Can you clarify for me - why if I turn the dial all the way to the 70Hz side, it's not really 70Hz, but it's 60Hz?

I don't get it.

 

 

IMG_1269.jpg

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1 hour ago, Paul Garafola said:

 

Thanks, Trey. 

 

60hz setting?  The lowest setting as it appears on the Cut-1 is 70Hz, but obviously I'm misunderstanding that because even in the Schoeps manual, it says ....  "...CUT 1 (cut off frequency = 60 Hz)". 

 

Can you clarify for me - why if I turn the dial all the way to the 70Hz side, it's not really 70Hz, but it's 60Hz?

I don't get it.

 

 

IMG_1269.jpg

Weird, I could have sworn it was 60hz on the cut 1. I couldn’t really notice a difference between 60hz and 70hz when using them on set though.

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I don‘t have hands on experience with either, but the graph in the manual of the cut 1 shows a drop starting at 70hz

https://schoeps.de/fileadmin/user_upload/user_upload/Downloads/Bedienungsanleitungen/Schoeps_Manual_CUT-090301_1388735774.pdf

 

then again some sources on the web that read like they come fron the schoeps press release mention the cut 60 having „the same 60hz“ cutoff like the cut 1.

a few other sources (for example b&h) mention in the cut60 specs -3db at 60hz, which is pretty much in line with the graph of the cut 1 manual.

 

so personally I guess they are pretty much the same in real world use.

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7 hours ago, Paul Garafola said:

 

...

Schoeps manual, it says ....  "...CUT 1 (cut off frequency = 60 Hz)". 

Can you clarify for me - why if I turn the dial all the way to the 70Hz side, it's not really 70Hz, but it's 60Hz?

I don't get it.

 

 

Geek time...

 

The CUT 1 has two different filters:

 

1)  A fixed 24 dB/oct 60Hz filter.

2) A gentle 6dB/oct filter, variable from 70Hz to 600Hz, used to dial in a rolloff to compensate for any proximity effect.

 

A CUT 2 is the same as a CUT 1, but the fixed 24dB/oct filter is at 30Hz.

 

Note that a filter is generally calculated by its 3dB down point, but its slope is dB/oct (i.e. 24dB/oct is a fourth order filter).

 

Both a CUT 1 and CUT 60 raise the sensitivity of the full size CMC amplifiers by 5dB (those marked with +5dB will retain their increased sensitivity), the CUT60 notes that it does not increase the sensitivity of the new CMC1.

 

CUT1 Freq.png

 

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Thanks, John.

I'm aware of all these specs on paper, so in response to you and Trey, I guess my secondary question is more practical.

 

So if there's a fixed 24 dB/oct 60Hz filter then what setting on that dial actually indicates that?

In other words, if we adjust the dial all the way down towards the 70Hz marker, isn't that cutting at 70Hz?

 

IMG_1269.jpg

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not sure if I understand the question, I think John was talking about exactly this, and the manual is pretty clear about it.

 

11 minutes ago, Paul Garafola said:

So if there's a fixed 24 dB/oct 60Hz filter then what setting on that dial actually indicates that?

 

on the CUT 1, you can't have only a "fixed 24 dB/oct 60Hz filter" no matter which position.

it's always going to be an overlay of two filters, a fixed 24 dB/oct 60Hz filter, plus one that runs at 6db/oct and that you can adjust from 70 Hz and 600Hz

 

my guess is that the second filter at 70Hz hardly noticeable on top of the steep fixed on at 24db/oct, but if you don't want that second filter it looks like you need the CUT 60

 

11 minutes ago, Paul Garafola said:

In other words, if we adjust the dial all the way down towards the 70Hz marker, isn't that cutting at 70Hz?

 

it's starting to cut at 70Hz at a rather gentle slope and then adds another rather strong cut at 60Hz, the result of which can be seen in the diagram of the manual.

 

hope I got this right since it's talking above my pay grade here ; )

 

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Once again, and as Chris said, there are TWO filters. The 60Hz @ 24dB/oct and a variable (gentle i.e. 6dB/oct) rolloff.  The adjustment is only for the variable rolloff filter.

 

The purpose of the 60Hz 24dB/oct filter is to diminish the infrasonic effects of wind, vibration, or other low frequency signals that do nothing but harm to your desired signal. The rolloff is to allow the user to compensate for the proximity effect of close micing.

 

The 70Hz marking refers only to the rolloff, not the fixed filter.

 

Of course, the resultant response curve will be the combination of the two separate filters, as is charted in the diagram above. With the rolloff set to minimum, the 3dB down point appears to occur at about 63 or 64Hz, close enough to call the unit a 60Hz filter. Very few specs are precisely what they list, otherwise you'd be seeing lots of minuscule, and confusing variations with an annoying amount of decimal places and is typically not a difference any ear can discern.

 

 

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