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Thanks for your experience.

Very much appreciated!

 

I think it's wise to invest in a second G3/4 as they have been very versatile over the years for me.

I think even some friends will sell their rarely used ones...

For TC I'll check the Tentacles. Those guys are old friends from the university days.

Support your locals!

 

Am I right that I need 3 pieces for 2 cams and my MixPre?

 

How will these files be synced in post?

Only with their tentacle software or is it a standard readable in common editing software?

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19 minutes ago, kavenzmann said:

Am I right that I need 3 pieces for 2 cams and my MixPre?

 

How will these files be synced in post?

Only with their tentacle software or is it a standard readable in common editing software?

No. Technically you need zero, assuming the cams jam and regenerate TC from your Mixpre in the morning and none of them "looses" it, e.g. due to power cycle, change of frame rate. For your workflow, it might or might not end up easier or necessary to have a dedicated boxes on a particular camera/mixpre or all of them. Having at least one sync box spares you carrying your entire audio bag to camera. Keep in mind, that the Mixpre 6 II shares TC in/out with AuxIn/AudioOut. So if the Mixpre is master or slave might just be a question of what is less cable hassle or an easier "sync" routine.

 

I am not closely familiar with current edit or acquisition suites, however TC is TC and they should all be able to read and sync it. It is either written on a dedicated "LTC track" in the audio and video files or (hopefully on proper levels) to the audio track on some GoPro, DSLR or mobile phone.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Constantin said:

I think g3/4 is just fine for a lot of work. If you enjoy the sound of mp3 audio combined with limited range then get one of the lower end digital wireless. The Sennheiser‘s have withstood the test of time, are rocksolid and sound ok. Pricewise really decent. Plus you can easily repurpose them later. If you move to high end wireles one day, you can use the Sennheiser as a hop or use the transmitter for sending audio to the iem receivers and so on. I find thos quite versatile. But if you need the latest shiniest toy then get something else

Hey Constantin,

are you suggesting there is lossy compression going on on rodelink, deity connect, AVX, etc?

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On 11/1/2020 at 10:45 PM, kavenzmann said:

 

I do like the overall sound of my new combo very much. Really a serious upgrade over the Zoom H6 and ME66/64 that I used before.

But what I was wondering is how warm the MixPre got inside the bag. I mean really warm. Is that a known issue?

 

Get a Sound Devices 8 Series and that will redefine what “warm” means!

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2 minutes ago, kavenzmann said:

Okay,

 

got it with the TC.

 

The issue often is, that the B-Cam is a DSLR without proper Timecode.

So I'll start with one of the TC boxes and need cables for the different TC connectors (SDI, HDMi, 3,5mm...).

That box can then also act as a permanent TC box for the DSLR.

Right?

Not sure what you mean by "I'll start with one of the TC boxes".

In a single TX-box scenario, you'd set/jam the TC of your recorder to the current time of day, sync the box to it via cable, walk to "pro"cam-A and sync cam-A to the box with probably a different cable.  Then you walk to "DLSR"cam-B put the box on it with yet another cable and leave it on there.

 

SDI and HDMI are digital video signal connectors. TC boxes output TC, not some video signal that has TC encapsulated. There are some boxes from ADA that inject or extract the different tracks from digital video signals, but from what I've seen, this is a rather uncommon workflow.

The connectors you'll rather see on professional cameras are BNC and various Lemos. Providing all these cables can add up to the cost of a TC-box or even more. Availability of cables "for the job tomorrow" is factor too.

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1 hour ago, kavenzmann said:

Okay,

 

got it with the TC.

 

The issue often is, that the B-Cam is a DSLR without proper Timecode.

So I'll start with one of the TC boxes and need cables for the different TC connectors (SDI, HDMi, 3,5mm...).

That box can then also act as a permanent TC box for the DSLR.

Right?

Almost always with DSLR’s you can manually input time code (i.e. set recorder tc to phone time, use phone for reference at camera) to at least be accurate within a few frames, as with fs7’s without tc back etc - but - doesnt help as much If they constantly switch between high speed. But with multicam intv’s etc it helps keep things close in the timelines

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2 hours ago, DanieldH said:

are you suggesting there is lossy compression going on on rodelink, deity connect, AVX, etc.


yes, that’s what I‘m suggesting. I‘m pretty sure that higher digital transmitters use some form of compression, too. The variance between the systems, as you suggested, is „lossy“ 

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35 minutes ago, Constantin said:


yes, that’s what I‘m suggesting. I‘m pretty sure that higher digital transmitters use some form of compression, too. The variance between the systems, as you suggested, is „lossy“ 

I think the Audio Ltd. A10 series claims to have a lossless digital compression technique. Everybody else uses some form of bit reduction. I was surprised to find that out about the compression myself. Not as bad as MP3, but not as pristine as one thinks.

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15 hours ago, Constantin said:


yes, that’s what I‘m suggesting. I‘m pretty sure that higher digital transmitters use some form of compression, too. The variance between the systems, as you suggested, is „lossy“ 

Your assumption does not apply to the Deity Connect system, and my guess is neither to the others, even the higher end systems. Most, if not all, systems use some form of Frequency-shift keying (FSK), which is, to talk in your therms "lossless". 

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3 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

 Most, if not all, systems use some form of Frequency-shift keying (FSK), which is, to talk in your therms "lossless". 


I‘m certainly not an expert in this, but I always thought FSK is a method for digital transmission and not to how the audio itself gets treated? So it could still be compressed before transmission. 
 

But regardless if what is being transmitted and how, it is not inaudible. I can hear artifacts and „noise“. 

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Thank you all so much.

It's always nice to get some advice from experienced people!

 

I've already been asked by the production company if I can improve the syncing of their recordings on set.

It's often to cumbersome for them on set to put the cameras/audio recorders together to sync the TC.

 

I asume that would be the job for one of the Tentacles or one of the BP-TRX from Deity, right?

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1 minute ago, Constantin said:

So it could still be compressed before transmission. 

In Deity case, no. Pre-amp -> AD conververion @24b/48k -> Transmission. Think of it as your Wifi connection; it has to cramp a lots of bits and bytes in a narrow band, so *FSK is needed, yet it remains the same as the original digital signal on the RX end. 

 

4 minutes ago, Constantin said:

But regardless if what is being transmitted and how, it is not inaudible. I can hear artifacts and „noise“. 

what system? Might be the AD conversion or preamp you hear? 

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12 minutes ago, kavenzmann said:

Thank you all so much.

It's always nice to get some advice from experienced people!

 

I've already been asked by the production company if I can improve the syncing of their recordings on set.

It's often to cumbersome for them on set to put the cameras/audio recorders together to sync the TC.

 

I asume that would be the job for one of the Tentacles or one of the BP-TRX from Deity, right?

Yes, or for many other products from maybe half a dozend other manufacturers, all with pros and cons, depending on the job.

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2 minutes ago, Vincent R. said:

what system? Might be the AD conversion or preamp you hear? 


AD conversion maybe, I‘d doubt preamp, as that should be more regular noise. 
I‘ve heard it on some of the top range digital wireless: Audio Ltd, Zaxcom 743 and ZMT (on the ZMT there is also preamp noise) and Lectro. With the Lectro I have to add that I am not sure yet if I have a fully functioning unit, but I‘ve tried three different transmitters so far. My regular post-production team alerted me to this, so I‘m not imagining it, although I have yet to hear similar reports from someone else. I have not yet heard the Deity system. 
 

It‘s most obvious when someone speaks, it’s remotely similar to a noise-gate and most pronounced on sibilants. 

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The shadowing could be caused by the Smart Noise Reduction. It is a very fast opening high frequency filter but does have a slower but still rapid release time. It is gain sensitive and might be noticeable if the gain is below normal or well below what we recommend. One way to check this is to increase the transmitter gain and see if it reduces the effect. Also, it can be simply turned off in the transmitter to see if that makes a difference. The SNR is handy for reducing room noise and lavaliere self noise. The filter's low pass frequency is proportional to higher audio levels  combined with greater high frequency content.

Best Regards,

Larry Fisher

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1 hour ago, LarryF said:

The shadowing could be caused by the Smart Noise Reduction. It is a very fast opening high frequency filter but does have a slower but still rapid release time. It is gain sensitive and might be noticeable if the gain is below normal or well below what we recommend. One way to check this is to increase the transmitter gain and see if it reduces the effect. Also, it can be simply turned off in the transmitter to see if that makes a difference. The SNR is handy for reducing room noise and lavaliere self noise. The filter's low pass frequency is proportional to higher audio levels  combined with greater high frequency content.

Best Regards,

Larry Fisher


Thanks Larry, that’s quite interesting. However, can I turn off SmartNR in the transmitter? I have not noticed that option yet. Also, since I‘m using the DPR, the receiver‘s SNR is disabled when selecting D2 compat mode. 
Moreover, I‘m getting this effect on other manufacturers systems, too

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:


[snip] However, can I turn off SmartNR in the transmitter? I have not noticed that option yet. Also, since I‘m using the DPR, the receiver‘s SNR is disabled when selecting D2 compat mode. 
Moreover, I‘m getting this effect on other manufacturers systems, too

I misspoke.  It's a receiver function.

LEF

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