Constantin Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 19 hours ago, Trey LaCroix said: Sennheiser 70 (That I'm trying to sell if anyone is interested) My personal dogma is to never sell a microphone, except lavs. You never know when you might need a particular mic and it’s a nice (growing) collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Posted June 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Constantin said: My personal dogma is to never sell a microphone, except lavs. You never know when you might need a particular mic and it’s a nice (growing) collection. If you have the money and space, that's great! I always thought of audio gear as an investment but I am not that sure about it anymore. Rode ntg3 drops in resale value after the ntg5 comes out. Maybe a bit similar with the 416 and 4060? (I don't know! Don't hate me for that from all my camera and audio gear the things that loose value very quickly are accessories for outdated gear. Battery grips... Baseplates for cameras.. audio adapters for mixers..) And so I am afraid to spend 500 for a windshield for a mic that may not be the "go to" mic in a year or so when an even smaller version comes out. The cosi windshields are specific for a special mic and if that's outdated they are virtually worthless. Even if the weight of a cosi seems alright starting at 200grams according to the manufacturer.. I think I will start with the rycote kit shield even if it's the old furry version and not the supersoftie but it's just 70grams. So here a winner again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 Of course, not selling mics is a bit of a luxury, and I don’t adhere to it strictly. The key is, though, to not purchase a mic you don’t like. A good mic can last many years. For example, a Schoeps CMIT is a great mic and there is no need to buy the mini version just because it’s there. The weight difference is there if course, but is that really worth it? And how many times did you really need a much smaller mic than the CMIT? On the other hand you do need a very small mic for those rare situations. But it doesn’t have to be a shotgun. Since you need a super-cardioid eventually, might as well tet ine of those, like the Schoeps with their CMC1 preamps or the DPA 4018c. So choose your mics carefully and you may find a companion for life. I had to learn that the hard way, too. Started with a Sennheiser ME66 (one of the few mics I sold), and then moved to an NTG3. Still have that one, never touch it. But it has a (personal) history and it stays with me. Every other piece of gear I‘ll probably sell in a heartbeat. 5 hours ago, Sound said: Maybe a bit similar with the 416 and 4060? No, the 416 will live forever. It’s indestructible. 4060 is still a very nice mic... 5 hours ago, Sound said: I always thought of audio gear as an investment yes, in the sense that it‘ll earn you money while you’re using it. Fine if you can and want to sell it later, but you shouldn’t think of that when you buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey LaCroix Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Constantin said: The key is, though, to not purchase a mic you don’t like. Very true. I very much like the MKH 70, but don’t love it. I don’t find myself going for it as much now that I have a 8060, 8070 and CMIT. I love the sound of all three of those mics and find that I can cover almost any situation with those three shotguns. It goes: CMIT - it sounds nice out here. 8060 - hmm... it’s noisier than I’d like it to be out here. 8070 - oh shit it’s loud out here/you want cover the whole scene with 2 wides and nothing else? the MKH 70 fits somewhere in between the 8060 and the 8070 in terms of reach and directionality so I usually just end up going for one of the other two. at this point I want to only own mics I love. My only exception is my 416. I don’t love that mic, but I’m never without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillepalle Posted June 11, 2020 Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 The MKH8060 was the first shotgun I got, about a year ago. I was also tempted to get cheaper options for a shotgun, but I'm quite happy I've decided not to go with the cheaper options around. Hard to say if it's worth the extra money, because that's a personal decision. I went for an established and proven mic. After having seen an example of two documentary filmmakers on an aircraft carrier who gets clean recordings without interference from the huge radar on board, I was quite impressed. There are many properties you won't find on any spec-sheet. I'm also shure that in the future I will get other shotguns, just to have options, as different mics have different properties. I've also used it for Documentary work on camera. At that time I've only had an Rycote Super Shield Small blimp as wind protection wich was a quite bukly setup, as I had to get in and out a car. After that experience I've bought a Rycote Super Softie for that kind of situations. For documentary work an M/S mic on camera seems very tempting to me, but that's nothing I will get soon. At the end of the day a camera mic is always a compromise. Greetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Posted June 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 hours ago, pillepalle said: The MKH8060 was the first shotgun I got, about a year ago. I was also tempted to get cheaper options for a shotgun, but I'm quite happy I've decided not to go with the cheaper options around. Hard to say if it's worth the extra money, because that's a personal decision. I went for an established and proven mic. After having seen an example of two documentary filmmakers on an aircraft carrier who gets clean recordings without interference from the huge radar on board, I was quite impressed. There are many properties you won't find on any spec-sheet. I'm also shure that in the future I will get other shotguns, just to have options, as different mics have different properties. I've also used it for Documentary work on camera. At that time I've only had an Rycote Super Shield Small blimp as wind protection wich was a quite bukly setup, as I had to get in and out a car. After that experience I've bought a Rycote Super Softie for that kind of situations. For documentary work an M/S mic on camera seems very tempting to me, but that's nothing I will get soon. At the end of the day a camera mic is always a compromise. Greetings Thanks! Is there a M/S Mic with a real long "reach" or directivity? I really like the MKH8060 and the price difference isnt a big issue (1000 compared to 730 euos) but the size and weight is my main factor. And its 10cm for the sanken compared to 18cm for the 8060, and 112grams to 55grams. And with a shorter mic I will need a smaller and lighter wind shield. Its annoying that there is no Super Softie for the Sanken 7cm tube - only for 5cm and 12 cm. Maybe I will just get a Furr from rycote and put it over the included foam if needed. I hope the sanken RF-shield will do well.. but I dont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted June 11, 2020 Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 hours ago, Trey LaCroix said: My only exception is my 416. I don’t love that mic, but I’m never without it Exactly same here. 1 hour ago, Sound said: Is there a M/S Mic with a real long "reach" or directivity Sennheiser make the MKH418, which is essentially a 416 with an 8 built in. I think Sanken also make a similar mic. And you can buy a separate fig 8 mic, like the Schoeps CCM8 and mount that on a CMIT, on a MiniCMIT, or on any other microphone. There are also lower cost options available from Ambient and Kortwich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haifai Posted June 11, 2020 Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 For cam mic mounting a one mic solution seems the most easy... like konstantin said, sanken ms, sennheiser mkh 418... there are some audiotechnica ms shotguns and neumann rsm 190/191 ( in my opinion the best sounding of the bunch), but for that you need a matrixbox that you have to rig somewhere at the cam, so its getting bulky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Posted June 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 Oh, that's to big for my setup. The only disadvantage of the cs-m1is the directivity as the Sennheiser 8060 has a much sharper pickup pattern in the high frequencies. But maybe it's easier that way and maybe off axis coloration is slightly less if high and low frequencies are equally dampened from the sides.. and maybe it's easier to use it indoors.. who knows. Still Sennheiser seems like a great option. Does the Schoeps minicmit habe an even sharper pattern than the Sennheiser? It's hard to read from the data sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Posted June 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 Now I canceled my order of the sanken cs-m1 because the pickup pattern is too wide for me. For example when I use it as an on camera mic.. The candidates remaining are sennheiser 8060, schoeps minicmint, rode ntg5 and sanken cs-1e (which seems more directional according to the specs). And with these mics I can maybe even use a small super softie from rycote. Does anyone know which has the best "reach"? Or any other ideas for the mic with best reach-to-size-ratio? With the schoeps, i read about some problems with moisture which could be a huge problem for me. So maybe I will be going for the 8060.. but still dont know. Thanks for all your help so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 I know the temptation to go endlessly back and forth on all this, but frankly why don't you just rent the three most likely candidates (I'd go with CS-M1, 8060 and DPA 4017C or miniCMIT if you have the money) for a day or two and record the way you typically do your projects? all fantastic options and it will tell you 10 times more then endlessly studying online info and thinking about this in theory. more fun too chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Larsen Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 12:22 PM, Sound said: Thanks! Is there a M/S Mic with a real long "reach" or directivity? A directional mic with an ATE 208 piggy backed on top. Personally I love the Sanken CS3e with that Fig8 on top. Not the best sounding combo, but covers so much ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haifai Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 And you can ask at the rental houses if they want to sell a used mic, as they dont have a lot work for the moment you can get good deals, i just bought a dpa4017 for a good price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Posted June 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Thanks a lot for all your help so far! I will figure it out, now I have some great options to choose from. It's a pity that there are not a lot of reviews out there for the high end mics, only for the cheap rode ntg5 I found a lot of reviews because people got it for free for their "honest review". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 I think the shortcut to the best mic is this: in this price range they all sound great and they all are great mics. You will find lots of people recommending one and lots recommending the other. That and reviews won’t really help you. It’s mostly a matter of taste and you can only find that out for yourself by trying them all out. Having said all that, of course the DPA4017 is the best of them all! Since you are not that far from me, I can rent to you some of the mics mentioned in this thread: CS-3e, 4017 b and c, CMIT, MKH416, MKH60, MKH50, MKH8060, Schoeps CCM8, and for good measure a MKH816. That last one will be directional enough for you. Don’t have the MiniCMIT, but it’s supposed to sound the same as the CMIT. Please note: rent not lend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 If it’s going on a camera just get the cheapest one of the bunch you’re considering. Seriously or even cheaper. So you’re like a one man band shooter doing your own sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Posted June 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Derek H said: If it’s going on a camera just get the cheapest one of the bunch you’re considering. Seriously or even cheaper. So you’re like a one man band shooter doing your own sound? No, I am doing sound and sometimes use a small camera with it.l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 11:34 PM, Constantin said: Sennheiser make the MKH418, which is essentially a 416 with an 8 built in. I think Sanken also make a similar mic. And you can buy a separate fig 8 mic, like the Schoeps CCM8 and mount that on a CMIT, on a MiniCMIT, or on any other microphone. There are also lower cost options available from Ambient and Kortwich Think you might be thinking of the Sanken CSS-5 On 6/14/2020 at 2:35 AM, Sound said: Thanks a lot for all your help so far! I will figure it out, now I have some great options to choose from. It's a pity that there are not a lot of reviews out there for the high end mics, only for the cheap rode ntg5 I found a lot of reviews because people got it for free for their "honest review". Even if you ignore the factor that Rode is giving away mics for reviews, there is likely 10x (or even a 100x, or perhaps x1000??) more Rode NTG5 mics sold than Sanken CSM1 (or replace that with a DPA 4017 etc or whatever) Thus with that many many many many more users, you're going to naturally see more reviews of the cheaper shotguns simply because there are more users of it. Same reason you for instance see waaaaaay more reviews of the Blackmagic URSA Mini (even though Blackmagic doesn't give away those for review), than you do of an Arri Alexa SXT / Panasonic Varicam S35 / RED Ranger / Sony VENICE / etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erob Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 21 hours ago, IronFilm said: Think you might be thinking of the Sanken CSS-5 I don't think he was, I believe he was talking about the MKH418S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Erob said: I don't think he was, I believe he was talking about the MKH418S To quote: On 6/11/2020 at 11:34 PM, Constantin said: Sennheiser make the MKH418, which is essentially a 416 with an 8 built in. I think Sanken also make a similar mic. Thus my response: "Sanken CSS-5" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/16/2020 at 11:56 PM, IronFilm said: Think you might be thinking of the Sanken CSS-5 Yes, that’s the one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
to6onfranco Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 I’m wondering which mic you ended up getting. I’m currently using an NTG5 and having similar tribulations. Is the MKH8060 worth the investment? Or would the 416 be enough for our modest requirements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Salles Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 Hi, I rented a MKH8060 for a feature I am working on these months, to complete my old trusted MKH416. It is a very urban film and we shoot a lot in the streets, in uncontrolled situations, pretty much like a documentary environment except with actors... I have been trying several mikes to pair with the 416, with a better sounding feature, and so far have not find one that equals its versatility and efficiency in the streets (I do not want to go the long shotgun way like 816 and newer 8070 etc...). I was happy with the Shoeps CMIT5 for some films, but was very disappointed with the miniCMIT. CMIT5 sounds so different than the 416 that it is hard to use both on 2 boom situations. I really wanted to love the MKH8060, but... My boom op and I ended up using the 416 more. The 8060 sounds much better yes, in controlled situation and quiet environment. It is close enough to the 416 to use both. But as soon as you need to get a voice out of surrounding traffic, the 416 still performs better. We encounter strange behavior with the 8060. The off axis pickup of low end freq seems way different than advertised. It is supposed to cut 10db at 90° but I really think that is not true. At least not with the unit we have rented. The 416 -that is supposed to cut only 8db- sounds like it cuts much more low ends at 90°. We are careful not to block the side gills (do not know the english word for the holes on the mike so thats direct translation from french) inside the Cinela, as the mike seems very sensitive to that. Anyone sharing the same disappointments with the 8060 or we have a faulty unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lonek Posted October 14, 2023 Report Share Posted October 14, 2023 On 6/9/2020 at 10:46 AM, Sound said: Thanks, does anybody know about the mkh 8050? Its advertised mostly for instrument pickup in the studio - although its the smallest supercardioid ive seen so far. Hi, MKH 8050 is absolutely great on a boom pole, too ! You just need to have it in Cinela Cosi exterior mount or similar interior mount by Cinela. Very costly but simply amazing solution. I got 2 of them, for PD and D shot sizes. Sounding great ! It is very close to / almost the same sound compared to famous MKH 50 but more lightweight, has more base response and has absolutely same characteristics, even lower noise and a bit bigger sound pressure. It only consumes a bit more phantom power (not an issue). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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