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Inna

What mics are right for my stereo setup?

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Hello Everyone!


Please help me to choose the right microphones for my stereo recordings.

 

I’am going to record SPA treatment SFX for my videos, so pretty quiet sounds (hair sounds, fingers sliding on the skin, cosmetic sound e.t.c.), so during 2 hours sessions I want to record everything! Which mikes should I use? I tried MKH8050 and pretty liked it, but thought about something more directional and sensitive like 8060, but I got recommendation from Sennheiser Germany to use stereo pair MKH8040 instead. So now I’m confused what way to go?

 

Room acoustic is pretty bad as you see on the photos (tail floor, big windows, lot of reverb and echo), I’ll put some sound blankets around “scene” with NRC 0.8, but actually when I tried to do recordings with Rode NT1, it sucked so much room noise all around and reverb, whenever in the same time MKH8050 looked much better (but it didn’t record some sensitive sounds, and gave lot of self-noise, what was easier to remove in post though).

 

Sound will be processed in the post to remove noises with something like RX, but due to the sound nature I record, it’s not always easy task. So please what is your advice guys?

 
Just for comparison, some mikes I tried are:
1)    2 x Rode NT1 (cardioid pattern) recorded too much room noise and reverberant echo, but they catched most sensetive sounds.Sound was too bright.
2)    MKH 8050 had much less of room noise, what was easier to remove in post, almost no echo, but it doesn't catch all sensetive sounds.
3)    Rode NTG5 (super cardioid shotgun) we had even less room & self-noise and due to high sensitivity caught very silent sounds what MKH8050 didn’t, but we had this “tube” effect and echo again, and actually it’s very thin. 
4)    NTG3 (super cardioid shotgun), just noisier and not so detailed as MKH8050.
5)    Oktava M12 (hyper and cardioid) too much self-noise as it’s not very sensitive and not so detailed as MKH8050. 
6)    We also liked AT4053B (hyper), but it has some RF issues and many of our records had some spontaneously inferences.

 

Sound recorder used is Zoom F6

 

So what is your opinion ? Should I go with something like 8040 Stereo, or something more directional and sensetive? 

 

P.S.: Photos inclue real video frames + main picture to understand mics positions.

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WhatsApp Image 2020-07-23 at 00.59.52.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2020-07-23 at 00.59.52 (2).jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2020-07-23 at 00.59.53.jpeg

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Well you could always try to deaden the room when shooting video, although perhaps the clients being seen to wouldn't like the visual change in ambience. Carpet on the floor out of shot, certainly below the mic stands, and some thick curtains or padding on the (out of shot) walls, particularly behind the mics if they're not intended to be seen. The entire Sennheiser MKH 8020-90 range is pretty much the most sensitive and quietest mic you can get beyond extreme specialisation so it's a case of working out a way of improving the acoustics of the room. Once that is addressed I would even consider the 8020 omni mic (up as close as possible out of frame) or the less common wide cardioid (8090 I think). The point Sennheiser are making with cardioids is to have a decent 'null' at the back of the mic (to point to a problem area often) as opposed to more directional mics (8050, 60, 70) where the back of the mic or tube characteristic of the mic picks up more unwanted reflection from the room. As I said before, if you want 'nice', rather than merely documentary, sound the thing to do is to look seriously into changing the acoustic properties of the room itself for the video shoots.

 

Having sound edited similar scenes you might indeed consider, if duration is not long (ie promo videos) getting an editor to do 'foley' sound editing, similar to the 'super up close' sound of natural history documentaries, although I would only recommend this if you went with suitably skilled people and / or quality studios ... Although getting the acoustic deadened and recording the real thing close is the best first step anyway.

 

Where in Poland are you anyway? Warsaw and Lodz are both central for tv/radio/film and there are theatre based studios elsewhere. I would highly recommend finding a local sound engineer to guide you.

 

Best, Jez

 

(I worked in Poland at TVP and elsewhere so I know what my name means to you)!

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1 hour ago, VAS said:

My question: SFX capturing has to be done during filming?

 

 

It looks very ASMR. 

 

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10 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

Well you could always try to deaden the room when shooting video, although perhaps the clients being seen to wouldn't like the visual change in ambience. Carpet on the floor out of shot, certainly below the mic stands, and some thick curtains or padding on the (out of shot) walls, particularly behind the mics if they're not intended to be seen. The entire Sennheiser MKH 8020-90 range is pretty much the most sensitive and quietest mic you can get beyond extreme specialisation so it's a case of working out a way of improving the acoustics of the room. Once that is addressed I would even consider the 8020 omni mic (up as close as possible out of frame) or the less common wide cardioid (8090 I think). The point Sennheiser are making with cardioids is to have a decent 'null' at the back of the mic (to point to a problem area often) as opposed to more directional mics (8050, 60, 70) where the back of the mic or tube characteristic of the mic picks up more unwanted reflection from the room. As I said before, if you want 'nice', rather than merely documentary, sound the thing to do is to look seriously into changing the acoustic properties of the room itself for the video shoots.

 

I'm worrying that 8020 will suck too much room noise, even after room will be treated, we also thinking about using BMPCC 6K what has fan built in, it's usually easy to remove in post, but omni can record this sound too loud. I also going to use 2 other mics for whisper talks in the same time (2xRode NT1) , so they will bleed with other 2.

 

So should I go with 2x8090 with close ups or just with classic 2x8040 ? Also with MKH8050 I had lot of plosives while moving my hands near the mic, if MKH8040 is less suspectible to this behaviour? 

 

Also any benefits of using pencils in my case? Instead of large diafragm mics like AKG 414? 

 

10 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

Having sound edited similar scenes you might indeed consider, if duration is not long (ie promo videos) getting an editor to do 'foley' sound editing, similar to the 'super up close' sound of natural history documentaries, although I would only recommend this if you went with suitably skilled people and / or quality studios ... Although getting the acoustic deadened and recording the real thing close is the best first step anyway.

I'am going to record 1-2 hour sessions non stop, we can't use studios, as we have equiped room where we have to work. 

 

5 hours ago, VAS said:

My question: SFX capturing has to be done during filming?

Actually, we are going to record 1-2 hours video sessions non stop.

 

4 hours ago, daniel said:

It looks very ASMR. 

Yes we are trying to record very similar videos, with maximum immersive sound + video, so this kind of stereo = binaural like, so our viewers could feel that they are taking this treatment while watching our videos.

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22 minutes ago, Inna said:

Yes we are trying to record very similar videos, with maximum immersive sound + video, so this kind of stereo = binaural like, so our viewers could feel that they are taking this treatment while watching our videos.

The subject matter is very ASMR. A lot of ASMR i checked, the mics are part of the look. I would try a number of approaches (if you don't want the mics in shot):

~ If the camera/s are locked off, capture a 'clean plate' and paint the mics out.

~ Use more than 1 stereo pair. eg an in ear binaural set or on the shoulder under the hair in the 'brushing shot' and under the sheet for the face massage (fur between the mic and sheet will help limit any fabric noise).

 

If you like the 8050s go with those. 8040s better for a stereo ambience (or at least a wider stereo field) – ASMR is more like stereo spot effects. 

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34 minutes ago, daniel said:

The subject matter is very ASMR. A lot of ASMR i checked, the mics are part of the look. I would try a number of approaches (if you don't want the mics in shot):

~ If the camera/s are locked off, capture a 'clean plate' and paint the mics out.

~ Use more than 1 stereo pair. eg an in ear binaural set or on the shoulder under the hair in the 'brushing shot' and under the sheet for the face massage (fur between the mic and sheet will help limit any fabric noise).

 

If you like the 8050s go with those. 8040s better for a stereo ambience (or at least a wider stereo field) – ASMR is more like stereo spot effects. 

Thank you for your suggestions. We thought about object replacement in video, but need to have some practise.

 

1) If 8050 is better, maybe try even more directional way like mkh8060?

2) Yes we gonna use in ear binaurals in most shots, but worry that cardioids under the sheet will catch lot of breating in "face masssage shot". Thanks for this tip with fur - didn't know about it!

 

Do you know any good course or webinar, where explained how to mix those kind of records? From 2 stereo sets?

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14 minutes ago, Inna said:

Thank you for your suggestions. We thought about object replacement in video, but need to have some practise.

 

1) If 8050 is better, maybe try even more directional way like mkh8060?

2) Yes we gonna use in ear binaurals in most shots, but worry that cardioids under the sheet will catch lot of breating in "face masssage shot". Thanks for this tip with fur - didn't know about it!

 

Do you know any good course or webinar, where explained how to mix those kind of records? From 2 stereo sets?

I think the 8060 will be too directional (wont sound 'natural') but worth a try - if you can afford to hire both 8060 and 8050s mount the 8050s on the 8060s and compare the results in post. 

I was thinking of a binaural pair under the sheet (technically a spaced pair of omnis if positioned there and wouldn't get too much breathing from either person) but if the 'contributor' has them in the ears they will be even closer to the action. What ('in-shot') binaurals are you using? If I understand you correctly, a mix of stereo tracks would involve balancing 1 set of stereo tracks against the other in terms EQ, level and timing (if not positioned at the same distance) from the source.

If the audience are primarily using headphones then you need to use decent headphones for the mix. BTW the framing of the 1st picture (face massage) wont match the stereo sound field. The image plane is almost perpendicular to the sound field.

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I already bought in-ear DPA's for binaural recordings, and they sound pretty good. But for shots like face massage above, seems I have to use dummy head with DPA's in ear watching from the same position as camera or 2 directional mics from the right and left side of the "frame". You think dummy head with in-ear DPA watching girl on SPA bed the same way as camera will catch these sensetive sounds? 

 

 

 

 

 

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Aloha, lots of great ideas generated for you from sound guys with a lot of experience. It would appear to me that even the best low ambience mics like Sennheiser are going to really be taxed in picking up the desired effects you are hoping for. This room is not ever going to be super quiet. The Foley idea seems quite real as you can record the desired effects and then patch them into the finished product. Hope it all works out for you, cheers

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