Future path/career musings, looking for advice or input

[Conor]

Greetings, denizens of JWSound

 

Some background: (may be a bit long-winded but context is a good thing I hope)

I'm a sound-engineering diploma graduate (not that the qualification really counts for much), aspiring to build a career in either location or post, though I know I'll likely end up focusing on one discipline and dabbling in the other. I don't have any post work experience, but have invested in basic home studio gear and software and am teaching myself in my spare time at home when I can (really just basics & personal/friends projects thus far).

 

I started out after college in location sound, and was lucky enough to get onto a decent long-format drama gig as a boom op fairly quickly. The mixer I worked under was gracious enough to take me from pretty much 0 experience in location sound under his wing to becoming a half decent boom op by the end of the shoot. 
From there I worked mostly as a boom op for a while on various gigs gotten through word of mouth or people I met - tried agents but didn't have much luck getting work through them. Work dried up for a while and I wasn't able to sustain myself any more doing this, and got other work outside of the industry.

 

Eventually I got a call about another big long-format gig and took that, was about 6 months. On this shoot I really cut my teeth as an audio utility as well as boom op, getting a bit more responsibility handling & applying lavs to the actors for the mixer in question, managing Tx/Rxs, so I learned quite a bit more on this job. However, after the job was over I struggled to find work again. I just didn't have the intimate knowledge of a lot of the gear required to take on work as a mixer and the competition for work as boom op / utility seemed quite high.

 

Shortly after, I was lucky enough to get a job at a film sound rentals company/gearhouse, which is where I currently work. It's been an amazing job as we have all of the pro-level location sound gear and I'm able to familiarise myself with all of it - Lectro, SoundDevices, etc. I've gained an incredible amount of knowledge working here and working with and maintaining gear, networking with operatives, constructing big kits for reality shows, etc. I'm very grateful for my situation.
But the caveat is obviously that I don't really get to work on set. And there's a wealth of on-set knowledge that I'm missing out on learning. I'm in a gearhouse working with gear for my 9-5. And I don't think that I want to be doing this forever. I'm just not sure how I should progress from this in the future. 

 

I guess the obvious choice is to use this time to save up to buy my own gear and then make the jump to freelance when the time feels "right"? I would just like to know if anyone has advice on what they would do / would have done at this point in their careers. 

 

One idea I have had is to ask my superiors if they might let me loan equipment over nights/weekends to volunteer on student shoots or something like that. That way I'd at least get to practice workflow and acclimatise more to actually operating and being on set.

 

I apologise if this is a bit long-winded, but I'd highly appreciate any advice or input.

I guess ultimately I'm a bit tentative about making the jump to working freelance as I've struggled to get consistent work in that position in the past (though I did have much less experience), and if you don't work, you don't eat. And I have a level of job security now which is hard to justify leaving.

 

Cheers in advance for any advice

[JonG]

I’d say stick with your rental house job for at least a couple years, make contacts, and then shoot for doing boom and utility work later on. I’ve seen that be a winning formula that works well for a lot of people, with a lot less struggle trying to make it as a sound mixer from the get go. At the end of the day, not having to purchase equipment, and going up against the already established mixers in your area, is a lot less of an uphill battle. You can still do post on the side, which I encourage. Get extremely proficient with pro-tools and izotope rx for a start, and let your customers know that you’re open to doing small post projects. 

[IronFilm]

19 hours ago, Conor said:

One idea I have had is to ask my superiors if they might let me loan equipment over nights/weekends to volunteer on student shoots or something like that. That way I'd at least get to practice workflow and acclimatise more to actually operating and being on set.

 

110% do this. 

Because you've got some amazing opportunties/advantages right now:
1) you've got a steady full time job earning money
2) you're constantly picking even more gear/technical knowledge while at work

3) you're able to network like crazy with everyone coming into rent/buy from the store (plus get to know all the brand reps too)

4) you're likely able to borrow the gear at a good rate when not in use on your off hours
5) you've still got weekends and evenings to yourself (although this might require burning the candle at both ends a little bit sometimes, but so long as your bosses are cool with that, that's ok)

So yes, take on whatever student/indie jobs you can, be they post or on set. Likely. you might even be taking on proper professional (and remember to charge appropriately!) jobs too. 

Stick with this plan for at least a couple of years, because 1) then COVID19 should hopefully be fully behind us and the economy recovered & 2) you'll still be learning heaps more. 

After two or more years has passed while doing this, only then perhaps think about making the leap back out into the world of freelancing and quitting your comfortable 9-5 job. And perhaps only leave if you've got locked in a great gig to go to next (as you've got the luxury of being able to wait until the perfect gig comes along, as you've still got your 9-5 job available to do), like working on a feature for the next 9 months under a mixer you highly admire. 

 

  

19 hours ago, Conor said:

I guess ultimately I'm a bit tentative about making the jump to working freelance as I've struggled to get consistent work in that position in the past (though I did have much less experience), and if you don't work, you don't eat. And I have a level of job security now which is hard to justify leaving.

Don't full into the trap of spending like someone who never has to worry about their next paycheck. As otherwise in a couple of years time you'll struggle a lot to readjust, you might even find it near on impossible. 

Instead use this time to save up as much as possible! For three reasons:
1) the best time to save is while young (because of the magic of compound interest!)
2) you can put your savings into building up your kit
3) you can build up your large buffer you need while freelancing

[Conor]

8 hours ago, JonG said:

I’d say stick with your rental house job for at least a couple years, make contacts, and then shoot for doing boom and utility work later on. I’ve seen that be a winning formula that works well for a lot of people, with a lot less struggle trying to make it as a sound mixer from the get go. At the end of the day, not having to purchase equipment, and going up against the already established mixers in your area, is a lot less of an uphill battle. You can still do post on the side, which I encourage. Get extremely proficient with pro-tools and izotope rx for a start, and let your customers know that you’re open to doing small post projects. 

 

Thanks Jon. I'm definitely happy in my current position at the moment and will stick it out here for a while to come still. 
Regarding post work - if I've already invested in the Steinberg route with Nuendo/Cubase/Wavelab, would you say it's still absolutely necessary to become acquainted with ProTools as soon as possible? 
Doing some basic work with RX7 Standard at the moment, saving for the upgrades.

 

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

110% do this. 

Because you've got some amazing opportunties/advantages right now:
1) you've got a steady full time job earning money
2) you're constantly picking even more gear/technical knowledge while at work

3) you're able to network like crazy with everyone coming into rent/buy from the store (plus get to know all the brand reps too)

4) you're likely able to borrow the gear at a good rate when not in use on your off hours
5) you've still got weekends and evenings to yourself (although this might require burning the candle at both ends a little bit sometimes, but so long as your bosses are cool with that, that's ok)

So yes, take on whatever student/indie jobs you can, be they post or on set. Likely. you might even be taking on proper professional (and remember to charge appropriately!) jobs too. 

Stick with this plan for at least a couple of years, because 1) then COVID19 should hopefully be fully behind us and the economy recovered & 2) you'll still be learning heaps more. 

After two or more years has passed while doing this, only then perhaps think about making the leap back out into the world of freelancing and quitting your comfortable 9-5 job. And perhaps only leave if you've got locked in a great gig to go to next (as you've got the luxury of being able to wait until the perfect gig comes along, as you've still got your 9-5 job available to do), like working on a feature for the next 9 months under a mixer you highly admire. 

 

  

Don't full into the trap of spending like someone who never has to worry about their next paycheck. As otherwise in a couple of years time you'll struggle a lot to readjust, you might even find it near on impossible. 

Instead use this time to save up as much as possible! For three reasons:
1) the best time to save is while young (because of the magic of compound interest!)
2) you can put your savings into building up your kit
3) you can build up your large buffer you need while freelancing

 

Thank you so much, this all makes a lot of sense.

I can definitely work on and immerse myself more in the fiscal concepts and tips you've mentioned.. You make a great point.
Would you think it would make any sense for me to invest in starter level gear now? Or save over time and start with bigger purchases of pro level gear?

I enjoy your YT channel btw!
 

[Mattias Larsen]

Welcome to Jwsound!

 

Both are good thoughts that you have got from JonG and IronFilm, so I will not expand on that.

 

I use PT myself, because it "works" even if there are some small annoyances.  And it is "the standard". Now quite some people are switching to Nuendo as the subscription plan for protools is quite costly to stay up to date.

 

Surprisingly many I work with use Nuendo, but maybe it is a bit bigger in Europe. Having said that, it is probably good to be able to do a little bit of protools if you collaborate with people. If you do all the post yourself, go ahead and make the most of what you have.

 

Appearently nuendo is very popular with ADR studios.

 

You dont need to subscribe and have the latest and greatest protools either, atleast to start with. I am stuck with 12 something and it does what I need it to do (apart from the video engine, but I have a workaround for now).

 

RX and popular third party plugins like Waves/Altiverb/Fabfilter will be the same regardless of DAW.

 

And just to chime in on starting with production. If you do student projects, the school often provide equipment. You'll also learn which gear that cant withstand student abuse and you can start eventually to buy the small things to complement what you are not provided or is hard to rent/loan from somewhere.

 

Good luck!

[JonG]

11 hours ago, Conor said:

Regarding post work - if I've already invested in the Steinberg route with Nuendo/Cubase/Wavelab, would you say it's still absolutely necessary to become acquainted with ProTools as soon as possible? 
Doing some basic work with RX7 Standard at the moment, saving for the upgrades.

Yes. Pro-Tools is the standard professional tool used by pretty much everybody, and you will be expected to be able to accept and deliver Pro-Tools sessions. You can have a very good career if you don’t ever learn Cubase. But you have to know Pro-Tools inside and out. 

3 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

as the subscription plan for protools is quite costly to stay up to date.

I always purchase a non subscription license and skip a few generations before upgrading again. PT tends to be about $500, so I don’t think it’s out of the question to run te same system for five years before upgrading. I have a laptop with v7 and a Mac mini with v10 on them, and have a copy of v2018 on my main workstation. Between v10 and v2018 I see almost nothing new that really changes the way I work, I just had to upgrade because of compatibility issues with OSX. 

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, Conor said:

Regarding post work - if I've already invested in the Steinberg route with Nuendo/Cubase/Wavelab, would you say it's still absolutely necessary to become acquainted with ProTools as soon as possible? 

If you're doing small jobs by yourself, where just you is the entire audio post team, then you can use whatever the hell you like! Heck, if you're insane enough you could even cut the whole film on analogue tape. So long as you get the job done. 

But if you're looking to be but one cog in part of a larger audio post production process, then for now and at least the near/mid term future it is Pro Tools which is the widespread "industry standard" and you'll need to know it to fit in. 

 

12 hours ago, Conor said:

Would you think it would make any sense for me to invest in starter level gear now? Or save over time and start with bigger purchases of pro level gear?

Think it is smart to consider what is your "minimum level" that it will still be useful even after you upgrade. So that what you buy has a long lifespan not just for you right now, but also has backup/extra gear in the future after you've upgraded.

 

For instance I started out with Sony UWP-D11, now I've got plenty of Lectrosonics so that is all I need to use for talent. But I can still use my Sonys as camera hops.
But if for instance you'd started out with Saramonic/Samson/RodeLinks/whatever as your entry level beginner wireless, you might not want to use them for that. 

For another example, I've got an 833 currently as my main recorder, but I was perfectly happy to use my backup Zoom F8n instead on a recent job which I felt was going to be a bit hazardous. But I'd never ever ever ever have wanted to use say a Zoom H6 in that situation. 

 

Another factor to consider is that if you've got a really good relationship with your boss in being able to borrow their rental gear when not in use, you might be able to set yourself a high personal "minimum level" for purchasing gear than for someone else not in your shoes. 

 

12 hours ago, Conor said:

I enjoy your YT channel btw!

Thanks! I got so much out of for instance Matt Price's channel when starting out, and there was so little info out there (glad to see more starting with their channels too like Michael Wayne and Allen Williams!) that I wanted to do my little bit to give back. Is always nice to hear if someone else has benefited from me sharing my own journey. 

  

4 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

And just to chime in on starting with production. If you do student projects, the school often provide equipment.

 

Maybe it is different in Berlin, but I've found locally most of the film schools have terrible audio equipment. Such as the Zoom H Series, a Tascam, or the Fostex FR2LE, or even no recorders at all, just a mixer you're expected to go straight into camera with. (ditto their standard of wireless/mics/accessories/etc) It is the exception, not the rule, that they'd for instance have a 633 available for their students. (and even then... only one! And only for their favored / advanced students)

Plus lots of "student productions" are just organized by keen students outside their official film school courses, and they won't get much if any support in terms of gear they can borrow from their university. 


 

[Mattias Larsen]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Maybe it is different in Berlin, but I've found locally most of the film schools have terrible audio equipment. Such as the Zoom H Series, a Tascam, or the Fostex FR2LE, or even no recorders at all, just a mixer you're expected to go straight into camera with. (ditto their standard of wireless/mics/accessories/etc) It is the exception, not the rule, that they'd for instance have a 633 available for their students. (and even then... only one! And only for their favored / advanced students)

Plus lots of "student productions" are just organized by keen students outside their official film school courses, and they won't get much if any support in terms of gear they can borrow from their university. 

 

It depends on the school, but as starting out, it is not a bad thing to know how bad a H6 is, how to fix a totally smashed rycote blimp, troubleshoot why the battery flies out of a 744t etc.

 

The more reputable schools (dffb/babelsberg) have 6-7 series recorders, often beaten to death. (Have you hear anyone else have to gaffer a stick in the battery compartment to make a 744t stable? ;p) Surprisingly often both mkh 60 and 40/50 and decent ambient poles.

 

The other film unis use H4/6, Tascam dr70 with a set of ntg1,2,3, me66, sometimes a Neuman81 and fight to use the 416. Good enought to start out with to get set experience, but no non rifle hyper options availible and often no alternative to a blimp indoors.

 

The wireless is mostly G2/3 with some exceptions and usually not more than enought to use 2 kits at once. I once reported a 4060 as broken, but came out in the field broken in the field again "as it worked as it should" ie, not at all. Even if it doesnt work properly, you'll get to know gainstaging and an understanding of why good wireless costs money.

 

So in my little slice of experience here, was to get hypers as they didnt use them much and charge for wireless that actually worked or to complement if they needed more than 2 channels, as well as an MP6 as I got tired of troubleshooting literally all provided recorders. But I guess every situation is different Maybe schools close by have some lectros and a well maintained recorders, but only boompoles from aluminium, once you figure it out - you can have an understanding of what can make your set life better and what you can possibly charge for.

[IronFilm]

35 minutes ago, Mattias Larsen said:

It depends on the school, but as starting out, it is not a bad thing to know how bad a H6 is...

Perhaps you're right, but my counterargument is: why bother going through all this pain and trouble in the first place? 

Especially when the OP has access to good gear from his workplace (and we live in 2020 where decent semipro affordable gear exists that won't make you go prematurely grey from stress while pondering how to blow your brains out with a rifle). 

Thus I'd suggest even for student shoots, he could at least show up with "the basics" (i.e. recorder/boom/2xWireless) already covered. So he doesn't need to use any of the supplied gear. But sure, if they've got something choice in their gear locker like a MKH50, or an extra channel of Lectro to supplement his existing pair of wireless, then go for it! Use their film school gear. But don't rely upon it.