RadoStefanov Posted October 3, 2020 Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 Certain Facebook groups who pander certain manufacturers BIAS delete posts and when challenged on the censure ban the user. Thankfully JWSOUND group is not Facebook! Thank You Jeff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 3, 2020 Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, RadoStefanov said: Certain Facebook groups who pander certain manufacturers BIAS delete posts and when challenged on the censure ban the user. Thankfully JWSOUND group is not Facebook! Thank You Jeff. Thank you, Rado, for all your support --- it is the members here that make JWSOUND a great site. There have been times when I wanted it to be Facebook (I felt that we were losing a lot of people and had become less relevant). Now, I am happy to keep JWSOUND going, it is quite a bit different than Facebook in many ways and our core members seem to appreciate that. So, for me, I will continue to participate in all the social media, including of course the site that bears my name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pullmer Posted October 3, 2020 Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 28 minutes ago, RadoStefanov said: Thankfully JWSOUND group is not Facebook! Agreed. After watching the social dilemma doc I’ve really been limiting my time on social media - it is nice to have this space that’s intention is to share info between our peers, rather than trying to keep you on its platform for as long as possible to make $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jeff Wexler said: Thank you, Rado, for all your support --- it is the members here that make JWSOUND a great site. There have been times when I wanted it to be Facebook (I felt that we were losing a lot of people and had become less relevant). Now, I am happy to keep JWSOUND going, it is quite a bit different than Facebook in many ways and our core members seem to appreciate that. So, for me, I will continue to participate in all the social media, including of course the site that bears my name. Lately the incentive to stay social media has been disappearing I am seriously considering leaving it. 3 minutes ago, Dave Pullmer said: Agreed. After watching the social dilemma doc I’ve really been limiting my time on social media - it is nice to have this space that’s intention is to share info between our peers, rather than trying to keep you on its platform for as long as possible to make $$$ I want to watch it. Check the older PBS Facebook dilemma 2 parts doc as well. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/facebook-dilemma/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pullmer Posted October 3, 2020 Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 Cool. I will. I also think because of the way Facebook is set up to maximize people’s attention and reward it, you see a lot more “look at me!” type of posts, or people trying to build their personal “brand”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted October 3, 2020 Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 I think that moving away from this site for any reason is a foolish idea. The format works well, it has the membership, and it has the history of discussions available for future reference. Definitely the best forum around for our business. I can’t lie though, I do miss having the bar kept high by the Senator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Karlsson Posted October 3, 2020 Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 I could write a whole list of reasons why I dislike FB. JWS is absolutely and definitely better for discussions that relates to our business in every way I can think of. The fact that one can search threads from even a decade ago makes this forum a gold mine of info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 hours ago, JonG said: I think that moving away from this site for any reason is a foolish idea. The format works well, it has the membership, and it has the history of discussions available for future reference. Definitely the best forum around for our business. I can’t lie though, I do miss having the bar kept high by the Senator. Hear Hear! The Senator is missed here for sure. And one of the worst thing about facebook is that there is no senator to check people's BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 +1 to all the posts in this thread. Lef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Johnny Karlsson said: The fact that one can search threads from even a decade ago makes this forum a gold mine of info. That is one of my biggest concerns about Facebook groups (especially closed facebook groups, which are not public). When I wanted to look up info about say for instance a Lectrosonics LMa, there is a wealth of info here on JWSound! Or even older, say a Lectrosonics UM200 (or even UM195), can always dig even deeper into RAMPS to find further discussions about them. (when I was starting out I was often reading old threads on RAMPs, as I couldn't afford brand new gear. So those RAMP threads, together with of course the manufacturer manuals, were extremely helpful in for instance understanding what all the differences are between say a UCR210D vs UCR201) My concern is for the next generation, the new guy in five or fifteen years times who wants to upgrade to say for instance a Sound Devices 833. Where will the info be to help them figure out their purchasing info, and then once they've got it, how to figure out learning their "new" 833? Yes, there will be a few videos online from the likes of myself or Curtis Judd, and JWSound has a thread which is five pages long, but the bulk of the discussion is on the 8 Series Facebook Group (and scattered across various other Facebook groups). Am just using the 833 as a specific example, but the same general principle applies to anything else recently new and anything else coming in the future. (MCR54/DSQD/822a/Nova/etc) None of that info can easily be found via Google (or Bing/DuckDuckGo/etc), because it is inside Facebook's walled garden. And what happens when Facebook turns into the next Myspace/Bebo/Friendster/Geocities? That is another reason why I hope JWSound keeps on going and actively thrives too! It is so much more accessible in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 Yeah I hate the Facebook format. If it weren’t so popular especially for buying and selling gear I’d be off of it a long time ago. This site is and has always been the best for sound shop talk. I miss the Senator a bit even though I came under his fire quite a few times. I miss Oleg for his shenanigans as well. I guess he’s still on Facebook somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 hour ago, IronFilm said: That is one of my biggest concerns about Facebook groups (especially closed facebook groups, which are not public). When I wanted to look up info about say for instance a Lectrosonics LMa, there is a wealth of info here on JWSound! Or even older, say a Lectrosonics UM200 (or even UM195), can always dig even deeper into RAMPS to find further discussions about them. (when I was starting out I was often reading old threads on RAMPs, as I couldn't afford brand new gear. So those RAMP threads, together with of course the manufacturer manuals, were extremely helpful in for instance understanding what all the differences are between say a UCR210D vs UCR201) My concern is for the next generation, the new guy in five or fifteen years times who wants to upgrade to say for instance a Sound Devices 833. Where will the info be to help them figure out their purchasing info, and then once they've got it, how to figure out learning their "new" 833? Yes, there will be a few videos online from the likes of myself or Curtis Judd, and JWSound has a thread which is five pages long, but the bulk of the discussion is on the 8 Series Facebook Group (and scattered across various other Facebook groups). Am just using the 833 as a specific example, but the same general principle applies to anything else recently new and anything else coming in the future. (MCR54/DSQD/822a/Nova/etc) None of that info can easily be found via Google (or Bing/DuckDuckGo/etc), because it is inside Facebook's walled garden. And what happens when Facebook turns into the next Myspace/Bebo/Friendster/Geocities? That is another reason why I hope JWSound keeps on going and actively thrives too! It is so much more accessible in the long run. Like he mentioned: You can also search rec.arts.movies.production.sound That was before Jwsoundgroup.net and a great source of information. "not as good as jwsoundgroup" Some really epic posts back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, RadoStefanov said: You can also search rec.arts.movies.production.sound Yup, that's what I meant when I said "RAMPS". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 minute ago, IronFilm said: Yup, that's what I meant when I said "RAMPS". Yea I just wanted to clarify it. Googling RAMPS will not help others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 If I may be so bold, part of the reason our Host, who was a major contributor to RAMPS, started JWS was the huge level of rancor, ad hominem BS and endless tit-for-tat threads on RAMPS as it neared its demise. Many of us who just wanted to get info and compare notes about issues germane to video production sound bolted with Jeff to his new forum and never looked back. I very much agree that a huge part of the value of this forum is its searchability: one can jump into a Wayback Machine and search out how various issues and equipment were dealt with in depth back to the founding time of the forum. This function is just not available on FB etc type sites. (And manufacturers have mostly taken down their own forums by now, as well.) The ability to cruise back through many mixers' real-world experiences and solutions is just hugely important for a sound world where newb (and some old) mixers often work alone, and apprenticeships or even hands-on in-person advice are ever more hard to come by. Before JWS there was no way for a beginner or a person working in a small market to ask questions of mixers working on some of the biggest and most complex production being shot. JWS not only allows this, it encourages it! Being a production soundie is kind of a lonely business, and JWS is both our info fount and our support group. I raise a Great Big Drink to Jeff Wexler for keeping this place open for us!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 30 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said: If I may be so bold, part of the reason our Host, who was a major contributor to RAMPS, started JWS was the huge level of rancor, ad hominem BS and endless tit-for-tat threads on RAMPS as it neared its demise. Many of us who just wanted to get info and compare notes about issues germane to video production sound bolted with Jeff to his new forum and never looked back. I very much agree that a huge part of the value of this forum is its searchability: one can jump into a Wayback Machine and search out how various issues and equipment were dealt with in depth back to the founding time of the forum. This function is just not available on FB etc type sites. (And manufacturers have mostly taken down their own forums by now, as well.) The ability to cruise back through many mixers' real-world experiences and solutions is just hugely important for a sound world where newb (and some old) mixers often work alone, and apprenticeships or even hands-on in-person advice are ever more hard to come by. Before JWS there was no way for a beginner or a person working in a small market to ask questions of mixers working on some of the biggest and most complex production being shot. JWS not only allows this, it encourages it! Being a production soundie is kind of a lonely business, and JWS is both our info fount and our support group. I raise a Great Big Drink to Jeff Wexler for keeping this place open for us!!!!! HEAR HEAR! To Jeff. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 Slainté! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 Absolutely agree to all of the above. I for one, guilty of having visited this site less and less over the past years, will come back here more now and hope many others will, too. Thanks Jeff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Justice Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 This post is about me, and the Strictly Sound Gear group on Facebook. Early this year, Rado put up a series of posts in the SSG group about the politics of voting for the CAS awards. They were disparaging, crude, and broke several of the group’s rules. As the admin of the group, I replied and asked to please keep the conversation focused on the gear (as that is the entire purpose of the group, to discuss the merits of the gear itself). None of those posts were deleted, and they’re still visible in the group. Rado took that reply as an opportunity to attack me personally. He claimed I was committing “thought suppression” and “censure.” His posts clearly broke the rules of the group again, and his account was blocked from the group. Those posts have of course been deleted. On Saturday, he messaged me about it. You can see the interaction in the attachment. And apparently, he also posted here. While I appreciate Rado’s knowledge and abilities as a Sound Professional, I can not tolerate his bullying, nor his unprofessional tact in these spaces. Rado, I ask you to stop this campaign of harassment and lay it all to rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyman Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 I've always found JWSound to be informative and the best source for news, tips, updates etc in our industry. When I had Facebook 5+ years ago, I was invited into a private group (I forget the name) and I quickly realized how it was kind of just an echo chamber of people complaining about various things or "pea-cocking" about their experience and expertise. I would look up a lot of the various names of the loudest members of the group to realize that their arrogance wasn't even backed up with any real noteworthy experience. All in all, the discourse seemed to be very cultish "born again" attitudes of folks trying to outdo one another as though there was some sort of prize as to who could be the supposed utmost authority on the feeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 59 minutes ago, Doc Justice said: This post is about me, and the Strictly Sound Gear group on Facebook. Early this year, Rado put up a series of posts in the SSG group about the politics of voting for the CAS awards. They were disparaging, crude, and broke several of the group’s rules. As the admin of the group, I replied and asked to please keep the conversation focused on the gear (as that is the entire purpose of the group, to discuss the merits of the gear itself). None of those posts were deleted, and they’re still visible in the group. Rado took that reply as an opportunity to attack me personally. He claimed I was committing “thought suppression” and “censure.” His posts clearly broke the rules of the group again, and his account was blocked from the group. Those posts have of course been deleted. On Saturday, he messaged me about it. You can see the interaction in the attachment. And apparently, he also posted here. While I appreciate Rado’s knowledge and abilities as a Sound Professional, I can not tolerate his bullying, nor his unprofessional tact in these spaces. Rado, I ask you to stop this campaign of harassment and lay it all to rest. There was a post deleted. When you decide to delete my posts with my honest opinion that is called censure. But even if you did not delete that post. The conversation was about CAS awards for gear! You dont see how that relates to gear? It is very dishonest to suddenly pretend the whole thing as being not related to gear! When you order me not to talk about CAS awards given to gear it is called censure. And when you ban me from that group without a warning and without explaining me what rules I broke you even further suppressed me. I asked you to explain why I was banned. Now you are inserting yourself here to play a victim and are posting a private chat. I kept the disagreement private and never disrespected you. You are insulting me and calling me a bully! And accusing me of harassment. And then you call me unprofessional. Keep you BS on facebook in your group please and leave me out of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 I really did not want to get involved in this dispute, if that's what it is, but from my perspective there is some blame to both parties involved by bringing this issue to the various sites, JWSOUND and Facebook. It is my feeling that this whole issue, right or wrong in terms of administering social media groups, banning members, deleting posts, etc., should be settled privately amongst the parties involved. Personally, as creator and chief moderator of this site, I have been very lucky to have been involved in only a handful of "disputes" or contentious posts and I have not found it necessary to remove any members or even delete any posts. Our community here on JWSOUND has been really good at policing themselves --- certain members when they stray from the usually thoughtful and civil discourse, are called out by other members and guided back to reasonable behavior. I am grateful for that. Let's hope this current issue can be resolved between Doc and Rado privately --- I value the participation of both of these people. To Doc and to Rado, if there is anything I can be helpful with, off the site, please contact me directly: jw@jwsoundgroup.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Jeff Wexler said: I really did not want to get involved in this dispute, if that's what it is, but from my perspective there is some blame to both parties involved by bringing this issue to the various sites, JWSOUND and Facebook. It is my feeling that this whole issue, right or wrong in terms of administering social media groups, banning members, deleting posts, etc., should be settled privately amongst the parties involved. Personally, as creator and chief moderator of this site, I have been very lucky to have been involved in only a handful of "disputes" or contentious posts and I have not found it necessary to remove any members or even delete any posts. Our community here on JWSOUND has been really good at policing themselves --- certain members when they stray from the usually thoughtful and civil discourse, are called out by other members and guided back to reasonable behavior. I am grateful for that. Let's hope this current issue can be resolved between Doc and Rado privately --- I value the participation of both of these people. To Doc and to Rado, if there is anything I can be helpful with, off the site, please contact me directly: jw@jwsoundgroup.net Thanks Jeff, There is no issue. I have nothing to resolve with him. I kept it private but was dragged in and personally insulted. I prefer to stay away from such people. Thank you for letting free flow of ideas on your great group! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 My first real source - school for production sound, JWSOUND. No other community - forum have that information and great personalities. I am feel like to be part of this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 hours ago, Doc Justice said: the Strictly Sound Gear group on Facebook The hint is in the name:Strictly Gear!😉 Although, it could be argued many of us (me) are already too gear obsessed! But it is nice to have a group which specifically caters to our obsession/addiction without any of that unnecessary non-gear discussion fluff 😅😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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