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How often do you stick hidden lavs to skin vs to clothing? (assuming that the chest isn't hairy)


Matt G

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I feel that sticking to skin is less risky, is somewhat more secure, won't move around with the clothing, and much less likely to be seen my camera (always a concern for me)

On the flip side.... some actors might not like the temporary pain from pulling the tape off them at the end of the day. (and of course if you use weak tape that easily comes off, you constantly have to be on guard to be jump in to mess around fixing a loose lav) Even if they might not complain in the moment, or say "it is no big deal", you can't but help wonder if secretly they're hating you for you and might bad mouth you in the future? Which then comes back to bite you in being overlooked for future work. 

Of course if they've got an underlayer, you can stick the lav to that instead. (best compromise of both worlds??)
 

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80% of the time I mic the ladies right on the skin in the cleave just below the hem of the blouse. Actually, I instruck the female makeup artist to place the mic or i demonstrate, then hand the lav to the talent while my back is turned. Been doing this for years. I wrap the lav with a couple winds of Nexcare as a stand-off. Very rarely do I get clothing rustle. But can't do this with athletes because I hear their heart beat.

 

For the gents, 80% of the time I hide it in clothing with undercovers or an ursa mount. Far more susceptible to clothing rustle though. I haven't tried the Manzeer or the Bro, lol.

 

I mainly work on commercials, docs, and industrials.

 

One movie I worked on I saw the sound mixer cut a small slit in the neck hem of a T-shirt and fish a B6 lav from the back to the front.

For sweety skin application, when working with athletes or the TV show "My 600lb. Life" I use kinesiology tape. Never has fallen off and comes of cleanly but remove it sloooowly.

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2 hours ago, PMC said:

I use kinesiology tape. Never has fallen off and comes of cleanly but remove it sloooowly.

Ah yes, that's normally what I use 90% of the time:
https://www.d3tape.com/product/91/k60-kinesiology-tape-50mm-x-60-metres/

 

2 hours ago, tourtelot said:

Moleskin.  Doesn't hurt much unless you pull off hair.  A disposable alcohol wipe to take off skin oil, it will stay put for a long time.

 

Some actors are okay with it, some not.  Just gotta ask.

Not sure if I've seen Moleskin around in my neck of the woods, is "3M Nexcare Absolute Waterproof Tape" the same thing as Moleskin but under another name?
https://www.nexcare.com/3M/en_US/nexcare/products/catalog/~/Nexcare-Absolute-Waterproof-Tape/

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I almost never place the lav in the talent's skin.

It may irritate their skin, in the first place, and it my cause pain if you're not carefull - or even if you are - when you take it off.

And It may fall easily when it's hot and there's sweat on the skin.

I live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil so this is always the case.

I almost always place the mics in the clothes, 90% of times, with Rycote Overcovers. 

No regrets from talent, great sound.

 

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This is Moleskin in sheets:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Scholls-Moleskin-Plus-Each/dp/B00IG0RN74/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1YPMBOXV5DPWF&dchild=1&keywords=dr.+scholl's+moleskin+plus+3+each+pack+of+3&qid=1601998068&sprefix=dr.+scholl's+moleskin%2Caps%2C214&sr=8-6

 

I don't recall that I put lavs on actors' skin a lot, but not "never" either.  Like Philip says, after a while, you just know what you need to do to get a lav on an actor.  And even then, you are sometimes wrong.

 

D.

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I rarely use mole skin anymore. I only use it between really scratchy fabric and the lav head.

 

Nexcare tape does not stick well at all to skin or fabric for me. I use it frequently but only to wrap the lav head as a stand off to get the head away from skin and fabric.

2020-10-06 08.39.14.jpg

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I'm pretty much URSA mini mounts to clothing 70% of the time these days.  If wearing a thin t-shirt and no chest hair, then I might attempt to the skin in the natural chest cavity (another 10-15% of the time).  The rest of the times is my "wildcard" where anything goes in terms of a particular troublesome wardrobe.  Also, don't underestimate the power of "hiding" an exposed lav, especially in a wide shot.

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I concur about the ursa strap and rm-11. The problem is 80% of the people I mic are civilians in their own wardrobe. I don't get the luxury of time or having the subject remove their shirt/blouse in order for me to place the devices.

 

On rare occasions I even resort to the old school method of sandwiching the lav between two tape footballs.

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8 hours ago, PMC said:

I rarely use mole skin anymore. I only use it between really scratchy fabric and the lav head.

 

What do you use instead of Moleskin to affix the lav mic?
 

 

6 hours ago, Trey LaCroix said:

I always love how this gets a 50/50 response every time it is asked.

 

Doesn't seem to be running at 50/50? With the number of people saying "never" or 70-90% of the time they don't put it on the skin, I'd say the average must be running at over three quarters of the time the lav doesn't get placed directly onto the skin itself?

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7 hours ago, codyman said:

Also, don't underestimate the power of "hiding" an exposed lav, especially in a wide shot.

I guess it is a nice balance, how a lav is most needed for a wide shot, but also is then least likely to be seen! 

You could potentially even ditch the exposed lav completely once you go in from the wide to the mid shots, if it becomes troublesome. 

 

8 hours ago, jason porter said:

Usually it's determined by lightweight fabric that just will not support the weight of the rig.


Right, so I should try to always attach to the clothing, and only go for skin if it is a lightweight blouse/t-shirt. 

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2 hours ago, PMC said:

I use 3M Transpore Tape much of the time.

 

That's for attaching directly to the skin? As I've found it to be way way too weak when I'm using 3M Transpore Tape attaching it to clothing
(or maybe I'm getting this mixed up with the papery white tape that looks the same)

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I am honestly not sure where my percentages fall.  I try to approach each person with an "open mind" and evaluate their wardrobe and situation in the moment without making up my mind of what I'm going to do before I start.  I carry a kit that has almost a dozen different kinds of adhesives, but i use topstick the most by far.  It's not that it's better, I think I'm just used to it and can generally predict how it will react to a new situation.

I have no hesitation to attach to skin, though I usually ask permission first.

I like getting creative with lav rigs, but I think my best success always comes from the simplest setups.

No matter what, this is one part of the job you never stop learning, and that keeps it fun.

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I try to get a sense of what talent will be wearing throughout the day, especially if there will be wardrobe changes and to what. Skin is often a great option, if the mic isn't going to get buried under layers of synthetics, or winter coats. As we enter the colder season we are probably going to continue to do plenty of work outside, so I'll fill my magic box of lavaliere goodies (what one cam op I work with regularly refers to it as) with plenty of options for both skin mounting, hidden in layers of clothing, as well as exterior blending. I've personally been asked to not hide the mic as much, on non narrative shoots, during the pandemic, even though I often explain it will take me no longer to do it in most situations. One more thing regarding mounting to skin. I find it much easier to teach talent how to place their own mic, when on skin, than any other type of scenario. Clearly this is only in a situation where I am unable to place the mic myself.

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6 minutes ago, Matt Geldof said:

As we enter the colder season we are probably going to continue to do plenty of work outside, so I'll fill my magic box of lavaliere goodies (what one cam op I work with regularly refers to it as) with plenty of options for both skin mounting, hidden in layers of clothing, as well as exterior blending.

I guess adding on to Woody Allen's "can turn right on a red light" jest about California, I guess we differ in that finally (at least the men) will probably be wearing a button down long sleeve rather than a t-shirt during "winter" that makes our lives a lot easier here in LA to mic them up!

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