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Why do the Rycote Undercovers work so badly when the Overcovers work pretty well


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I was offered a deal on 100 Rycote Undercovers so I picked them up. I've been a fan of the Overcovers for years and thought the Undercovers might be handy for placing lavs inside wardrobe.

Am I doing something wrong, these things sound terrible, so much clothing noise and scratching. The Overcovers, I've used under wardrobe with decent to great results but the Undercovers

seem useless. Anyone here use them and get a good result? If so, am I rigging them incorrectly, I am using the Countryman B6 and the OST 801s and 802s and place the back on the mic on the sticky pad

and apply the undercover over the microphone element. Just on the off chance I got it backward, I tried placing the sticky on the mic face but it sounded even worse.

 

Obviously the B6 doesn't have a back like a flat faced mic like an 801 or a Tram, but boy do these sound terrible. 

Anyone have any tips for making these usable or are they just subpar?

 

Thank you,

 

Dan Brockett

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Undercovers are so bad as you said. Undercover's material choice is basically so bad. It's kinda filmsy and rough?, not that soft at all.  Just plastic or rubber concealer is much better.  And just put the mic onto fabric(cloth) inside is much better, it the mic placement doesn't break the shape of clothes.

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Undercovers can be OK and useful, but I agree that they're not as impressive as Overcovers. I don't use them much at all, but a couple things I've noticed:

 

The material can get compressed and have less volume if it's stored too tightly. It doesn't need it's own case or special handling, but don't store it between two heavy books...OK, duh, but you get the idea. If the ones you got were stored in a compressed fashion, maybe they're too flat.

 

I kind of do a little tent with Undercovers so there's a bit more material over the lav element. Mainly, I don't press everything tight around the lav (but do on the Sticky or other tape).

 

But I like other under-clothing mounts more (Moleskin sleeping bags, Hush lavs,  plastic concealers, etc). OTOH, perhaps Rycote's changed the fabric?

 

Speaking of B6 mics, these both look interesting, though I haven't tried either:

https://lmcsound.com/product/countryman-mounts/c-mount-b6/

 

https://www.bubblebeeindustries.com/collections/lav-covers-tape-and-fur/products/the-lav-concealer-for-countryman-b6

 

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At the back of the overcover the fabric construction is tight knit, so you don't hear any of the side touching the mic. My theory is that with undercovers because it's a very loose knit and they almost break away you can hear individual threads changing position and touching the mic.

 

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On 10/6/2020 at 4:37 AM, Dan Brockett said:

I was offered a deal on 100 Rycote Undercovers so I picked them up. I've been a fan of the Overcovers for years and thought the Undercovers might be handy for placing lavs inside wardrobe.

Am I doing something wrong, these things sound terrible, so much clothing noise and scratching. The Overcovers, I've used under wardrobe with decent to great results but the Undercovers seem useless.

 

I've come to the same conclusion, the Overcovers are useful, the Undercovers are not. I've used the Overcovers together with DPA concealers to protect from wind noise. However, I love the Rycote Stickies - perfectly adhesive and sticks to both cloths and skin for hours and hours.

 

 

19 hours ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

Slightly off topic, but still related: are the Rycote Stickies reliable on fabric? Compared to , for example Top Stick?

 

I haven't used Top Stick, but I really like the adhesiveness of the Rycote Stickies, and I've had good success applying them on fabric.

 

On 10/6/2020 at 5:30 PM, Jim Feeley said:

 

I only use DPA lavs, and the Bubblebee Industries Lav Concealers works great! The material is great, and there are two metal brackets included, one for bras and sleeves, and one for keeping the fabric off the tip of the lav - perfect!

If it's windy outdoors, I always use Bubblebee's Windbubbles - the most effective windjammer I've found for lavs. Hiding the mic with a windjammer on behind the sleeve of a jacket often works great.

 

Anyway, their Lav Concealer is well worth a try. I use it together with Rycote Stickies because the Bubblebee Tape is a bit too fiddly to apply and is not sticky enough. Do note that their Invisible Lav Concealer is not much better than the Undercovers, but the rubbery Lav Concealer is fab!

 

For me, it has taken away the headache of using concealed lav mics, it really has...

 

 

Cheers

Fred

Bubblebee Lav Concealer.jpg

Windbubbles.jpg

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44 minutes ago, ninjafreddan said:

 

Windbubbles.jpg

 

I am using this as much as Ι can (if clothe allow them - visibility) and I don't have problem with noise from fabrics.

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I've done many reality shows using only the Rycote stickies and overcovers. I often just preload the mic with these in the morning. Very rarely have these fallen off. I mean crazy, crazy shoots in all kinds of weather in every environment. I guess some material like wool nothing will stick to but most of the time they work just fine.

 

I do think the Ursa furries are a bit better and softer than the Rycote ones. But the Rycote is available in a big bag of 100 and they do the job fine. The Ursa sticky is not as good as the Rycote sticky though.

 

Huge fan of these products, I use them all of the time if we might end up outside. 

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20 hours ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

Slightly off topic, but still related: are the Rycote Stickies reliable on fabric? Compared to , for example Top Stick?

 

The Stickies Advanced stick better than the original stickies. Scroll about half-way down here for more:

https://rycote.com/microphone-windshield-shock-mount/lavalier-solutions/

 

But there's also Bubblebee's, URSA's, Super Stick It... I haven't used those. Any thoughts there?

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10 hours ago, ninjafreddan said:

I haven't used Top Stick, but I really like the adhesiveness of the Rycote Stickies, and I've had good success applying them on fabric.

 

9 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

 

The Stickies Advanced stick better than the original stickies. Scroll about half-way down here for more:

https://rycote.com/microphone-windshield-shock-mount/lavalier-solutions/

 

But there's also Bubblebee's, URSA's, Super Stick It... I haven't used those. Any thoughts there?

 

Thanks guys! I actually got the chance to try them out on a shoot today, booming for another mixer. 

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14 hours ago, VAS said:

 

I am using this as much as Ι can (if clothe allow them - visibility) and I don't have problem with noise from fabrics.

 

I go for this too if the jacket isn't too noisy or rubbing off beard etc which usually means lots of problems though...

 

How do you guys attach with bubblebee on? Sometimes causes me problems moving about and coming off. 

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18 minutes ago, colinmk said:

 

I go for this too if the jacket isn't too noisy or rubbing off beard etc which usually means lots of problems though...

 

How do you guys attach with bubblebee on? Sometimes causes me problems moving about and coming off. 

 

I use a safety pin and some tape.

 

 

Cheers

Fred

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19 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

Super Stick It... [snip]. Any thoughts there?


In my experience Super Stick it, like the name suggests is indeed super sticky. To the point that you have to be careful not ripping fabric when you remove it. And watch out getting it stuck onto any type of furry stuff. Basically not gonna come off.

It can work good on skin for certain situations, or for mounting a transmitter onto something ...

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I like Ursa Stickies a lot at the moment, I used to use Advanced Stickies quite a bit. Ursa's Soft Circles are also much better than Undercovers, but I mostly use them for color matching to decrease visibility, the mild wind/plosive protection is a bonus. They don't get a lot of use in general. I really like Overcovers, especially the Advanced ones, but I've also had good experiences with Ursa Plush Circles and Bubblebee's Piece-A-Fur. I'll probaly get Ursa Fur Circles and the Piece-A-Fur on my next lav supply order.

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On 10/8/2020 at 12:23 PM, colinmk said:

 

I go for this too if the jacket isn't too noisy or rubbing off beard etc which usually means lots of problems though...

 

How do you guys attach with bubblebee on? Sometimes causes me problems moving about and coming off. 

 

Tape around cable and the two things (don't know exactly the name) which is for tighting the fur.

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7 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

Bubble bee INVISIBLE LAV COVERS are magical how well they work.

The Invisible Lav Covers really work much better than Rycote Undercovers? The fabric material of the Lav Covers look so course in the product pictures.

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Great discussion gents, really appreciate the engagement and hearing the solutions everyone is using. I hadn't heard about the Overcover Advanced, I'll have to check that out

and I've never tried the BubbleBee stuff, but I am curious to try that too. Those Countryman B6 mounts Jim posted look mighty interesting too.

 

I did an all day shoot with talent on a stage last week and used the B6 on talent with just an Overcover, inside on a tight polo shirt and it was flawless, I didn't pick up any rubbing. I wish the Overcovers themselves

were available in larger sizes. The stock one is perfect for a tiny mic like the B6 but when I break out the OST 801s, the sticky is almost too small to cover up the OST and have enough

sticky area not on the mic to grab onto the furry. The thickness of the 801 uses up more of the overall surface area on the capsule so there isn't much left to grip the fur. I suppose

I should try two of the stickies together?

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3 hours ago, Dan Brockett said:

I wish the Overcovers themselves

were available in larger sizes.

 

As Rado mentions, check out the Piece-A-Fur from Bubblebees and cut to the size you want:

https://www.bubblebeeindustries.com/collections/lav-covers-tape-and-fur/products/the-piece-a-fur-1

 

Or maybe you'd like one of the slip-on lav windscreens from various companies...

 

There's been a big increase in the number of good lav tools in the last few years. Dozens here, and inexpensive enough to try a bunch of options

https://www.trewaudio.com/product-category/expendables/expendables-lavalier-accessories/

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Thanks, Guys. Glad it wasn't just me having issues with the Undercovers when the overcovers are just great.
I just bought the Bubblebee invisible Lav Covers and will give them a go on the next job. Also very interested in the Ursa gear that has been mentioned a few times here. I'll be looking into that too. Appreciate the tips.

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