kavenzmann Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Are there ways to improve the antennas of 2.4GHz wireless receivers such as the Deity Duo-RX? It has standard SMB connectors for both antennas, though. I wonder if some kind of directional antennas will improve the range for stationary gigs. Or if these do even exist. I plan to build a 4x TX wireless with the Deity Connect early next year. But I need to do some tests to be confident about these guys working correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shastapete Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 There are many 2.4ghz antennas on the market targeted to wifi installations, just watch out that most are RP-SMA, so you'll need an adapter. You, however, may need 4 antennas, as I don't know of any antenna splitters that would work with the deity system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kavenzmann Posted December 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Yeah. Four antennas might sound a lot, but if these guys are that cheap - no problem. I think I'm gonna check this as soon as I receive the first Connect set. I see there are lots of simple directional antennas out there. As you said, most of them with RP-SMA for WiFI routers and such. How long shoould the cable be max? I think as short as possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 There is a formula for 5/8, half-wave ect.,, but I do not recall it, nor can I find it. I think our esteemed friend Larry from Lectro posted it a while back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kavenzmann Posted December 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 FYI: There are SMA splitters and lots of cheap directional antennas out there. I'll be able to build a true diversity directional antenna system for 2.4 GHz for approx 100 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 In Germany talk to WiMo. They have a good assortment of antennas and they sell both to hams and professional users. 14 hours ago, kavenzmann said: How long shoould the cable be max? I think as short as possible? As you can't install an amplifier close to the antenna (the "receiver" in digital systems such as Deity is actually a transceiver) keep the cable as short as possible. Another advantage of Wimo is that they can build a pigtail to your specification and they have a good selection of low loss coax cables. Also bear in mind that a splitter will add losses by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 23 hours ago, Rick Reineke said: There is a formula for 5/8, half-wave ect.,, but I do not recall it, nor can I find it. I think our esteemed friend Larry from Lectro posted it a while back. 5/8 wavelength and 1/2 wavelength (4/8) antennas require additional matching whereas a 1/4 wavelength is a good match to 50 Ohms directly. Here's a easy to read article on 5/8 wavelength antennas: https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/antennas-propagation/vertical-antennas/five-eighths-wavelength-vertical.php As I remember, a 1/2 wavelength antenna looks like a high impedance load, i.e., much greater than 50 Ohms (a bad thing) and requires lots of matching for poor results. At 2.5 GHz, a corner reflector antenna is reasonably sized and has excellent directivity and fairly high gain. They are available from a variety of antenna shops since they are used to extend wifi. See Borjam's post below. Watch out for cable losses. At 2.5 GHz they can be a decibel per foot so choose your cable wisely and keep it short. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Best Regards, Larry Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Brockett Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 Larry: This might be a thread detour or more of a Karl question but since you are talking about it, do you foresee the possibility of a potential 2.4Ghz product for Lectro in the near or far future? I have the Deity system and a Røde Video Wireless, both are sort of prosumer-ish, I get it. but they aren't bad, most of the time although limited obviously. As limited as 2.4Ghz systems seem to be, it would be interesting if a top line product like Lectro threw their hat into that technology ring with a pro product. I am concerned about the FCC's culpability and responsibility to not keep auctioning off the UHF spectrum to the highest bidder, which will never be us wireless mic users. Less spectrum plus more users isn't forecasting a bright future for UHF for wireless mic users. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozzafunk Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Dan Brockett said: Larry: This might be a thread detour or more of a Karl question but since you are talking about it, do you foresee the possibility of a potential 2.4Ghz product for Lectro in the near or far future? I have the Deity system and a Røde Video Wireless, both are sort of prosumer-ish, I get it. but they aren't bad, most of the time although limited obviously. As limited as 2.4Ghz systems seem to be, it would be interesting if a top line product like Lectro threw their hat into that technology ring with a pro product. I am concerned about the FCC's culpability and responsibility to not keep auctioning off the UHF spectrum to the highest bidder, which will never be us wireless mic users. Less spectrum plus more users isn't forecasting a bright future for UHF for wireless mic users. Thoughts? I would hope not. 2.4 is becoming a swamp on set with all the other depts running gear on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 The 2.4 GHz spectrum is a mess. I would bet for a properly regulated cognitive radio approach on the traditional UHF bands or even TV channels exploiting the fact that the whole band is not busy everywhere. As for the 2.4 GHz antenna, remember that it can be challenging to build a good one. Tolerances are tight and it must have quite a usable bandwidth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 Maybe worth mentioning, there is the, not so cheap, RF Venue CP Beam 2.4Ghz. Rf Venue claims it is optimized with some "tech" for transmitting audio, opposed to WiFi. I am skeptical, if it will improve the deity system significantly in a classic bag/cart situation by putting some sort of directional antenna on the RX side. The Deity system uses a feedback channel for remote commands, resend requests and channel negotiation. The performance of the radio link will probably not improve equally in both directions. Things may be different though, if there are directional antennas on both sides in a fixed directional radio situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 22 minutes ago, DanieldH said: Maybe worth mentioning, there is the, not so cheap, RF Venue CP Beam 2.4Ghz. Rf Venue claims it is optimized with some "tech" for transmitting audio, opposed to WiFi. I am skeptical, if it will improve the deity system significantly in a classic bag/cart situation by putting some sort of directional antenna on the RX side. The Deity system uses a feedback channel for remote commands, resend requests and channel negotiation. The performance of the radio link will probably not improve equally in both directions. Things may be different though, if there are directional antennas on both sides in a fixed directional radio situation. I think some improvement can be expected. For starters, the transmissions won't be symmetrical with more bandwidth being used for audio from the transmitter to the "receiver" compared to the feedback signal sent from the "receiver" back to the transmitter. So, a properly aimed directional antenna would at least help reduce interference on the most critical point. Unless, of course, the worst offender is aligned with the RX and the TX. In that case, miracles don't exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kavenzmann Posted December 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 Thank you for the input. Highly appreciated! It is a fact, that we'll never get the same secure long range connection as with RF wireless. But it's worth a try at least for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 7 hours ago, borjam said: The 2.4 GHz spectrum is a mess. I would bet for a properly regulated cognitive radio approach on the traditional UHF bands or even TV channels exploiting the fact that the whole band is not busy everywhere. As for the 2.4 GHz antenna, remember that it can be challenging to build a good one. Tolerances are tight and it must have quite a usable bandwidth. +1... That's why people are looking for directional antennas and RF amplifiers to make their systems work at 2.4 GHz. Both of which are against FCC regulations. We might look at 2.4 GHz for remote control but not for production sound. It is way too line of sight, too busy with wifi and used by a variety of non-audio devices. If you want good, clean spectrum look at the 941 MHz band. It was set aside for wireless mic users when all the other part 74 bands were being sold or chopped up. Legally you need a license for 74 use but it keeps all the part 15 users away. Best Regards, Larry Fisher 7 hours ago, DanieldH said: [snip] I am skeptical, if it will improve the deity system significantly in a classic bag/cart situation by putting some sort of directional antenna on the RX side. The Deity system uses a feedback channel for remote commands, resend requests and channel negotiation. The performance of the radio link will probably not improve equally in both directions. Things may be different though, if there are directional antennas on both sides in a fixed directional radio situation. [snip] Actually, it improves the exactly same amount in both directions. A good receive antenna is an equally good transmit antenna. If it has 10 dB of gain as a receive antenna, it has 10 dB of gain as a transmit antenna. This is for an antenna without amplification of course. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew From Deity Posted December 15, 2020 Report Share Posted December 15, 2020 Hey all, Luckily directional antennas for 2.4Ghz devices are super small. Like the palm of your hand small. I run several and have one I will use for long range or difficult to pickup transmitters that gives me great range and punches thru walls no problem. This is a 2.4Ghz Yagi PCB antenna with a semi-rigid coax cable soldered directly to the PCB and into a SMA connector. This little guy cost a whopping $8, an an afternoon of soldering. The guy who makes them is in Dallas Texas. If you can't solder or have access to this type of coax wire, if you email Kent over at WA5VJB they can put together one for you a little extra cost. https://www.wa5vjb.com/products2.html I screw it on, point it, and i'm getting 4 out of 5 bars with a transmitter punching thru 2 walls behind the choir loft where the PA system was. I had the transmitter sitting next to a microwave, nothing fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Brockett Posted December 15, 2020 Report Share Posted December 15, 2020 Cool resource Andrew, thanks for posting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 On 12/11/2020 at 4:09 PM, LarryF said: Actually, it improves the exactly same amount in both directions. A good receive antenna is an equally good transmit antenna. If it has 10 dB of gain as a receive antenna, it has 10 dB of gain as a transmit antenna. This is for an antenna without amplification of course. True, but I was thinking about the non linear effects, ie, receiver saturation. In a link with enough interference to cause intermodulation on the receiver the directional antenna may be more beneficial on the receiver, as it will attenuate off axis interference (unless Mr. Murphy makes the powerful interference exactly on axis) And in this particular application there is more bandwith from the "transmitter" to the "receiver" (audio) than the reverse (feedback/control signals from the "receiver" to the "transmitter"). Just from a theoretical point of view As for the 941 MHz band, can you use it for wireless microphones in Europe? I have checked quickly at the current Spanish regulations (and it's more or less the same in all the EU) and except for low power wireless telephones I don't see other applications, but I have just checked on the latest update, more on this later). At least the Spanish regulation mentions the 863 - 865 MHz band for wireless microphones, but preferably non professional applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 The 941 MHz band is US only except Britain has a band at 960 MHz, as I remember. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kavenzmann Posted December 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 FYI: I ordered a few antennas from Kent at https://www.wa5vjb.com/products2.html Very nice and friendly service. Recommended! Unfortunately, I won't receive my Deity's anytime soon. Probably mid january. I'll do some tests against my G3s, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobo Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 I've had solid results the RF-Venue CP Beam 2.4 for a long time as a Zaxnet antenna. In fact, I got a loaner from them to test out years ago, and I liked it so much I bought. It is a soft version of the current molded ABS version. They make good stuff, I own a Diversity-Fin too. The cheaper $8 yagi board is worth a look, on cost alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanostas Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 Hi all What's my choices for the TX of deity connect antennas replacement? Has sma connector but I can't find in the market similar 2.4ghz wipe sma antenna for transmitter. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisT Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 If the TX is not worn on the body, check out the 2.4GHz antennas available for drones. https://www.getfpv.com/fpv/antennas.html?frequency=142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 I built one of the shark fin style antennas that Andrew from Deity shows you how to build in this video. Of course this wouldn't help much for the body pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 I know it's an old topic, but some time ago I found a supplier in France that seems to have nice and cheap antennas. They have a cheap Yagi and several log periodics among lots of stuff for wireless experimenters. https://www.passion-radio.com/wifi/50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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