DanieldH Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 So, I've been asked to record some wild tracks of horse breaths in a real trot race for a TV movie. (This is a questionable idea in general, as a real sport event provides not a very clean sound setting, e.g. constant PA and though the horse team will be very cooperative, I'd interfere procedures and routines previous to the race and potentially even introduce some safety risks. However I'd like to discuss the task to record racehorse breath in general and controlled setting.) I did wire sulkies on camera on staged races before for this production but these where conducted horse friendly "as slow as credible" and at that time it was not clear, that it was the breath that was of interest. I was booming the show. Obviously the sulky is not close to the nose and it was not clear at the time that it is the breath the horse people were referring to as the impressive sound to the driver. The horse will trot around 60Km/h 37mph at full power and interesting breathing behavior. So, the actual question is, where to put a lav or even small diaphragm with whatever wind protection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 At 37 MPH there will be considerable wind on the mic. Whatever mic it is will need a very serious windscreen, like a zepplin type. If this is wild sound (no cameras), can you rig off the frame of the sulky, like a pole reaching forward towards the horse's head, but back enough to be out of its sightline? Then rig a small recorder to the seat or etc and let them go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 rycote fur nose bag: https://images.app.goo.gl/iPsrAEcGw7gCBFsV7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted January 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 44 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said: At 37 MPH there will be considerable wind on the mic. Whatever mic it is will need a very serious windscreen, like a zepplin type. If this is wild sound (no cameras), can you rig off the frame of the sulky, like a pole reaching forward towards the horse's head, but back enough to be out of its sightline? Then rig a small recorder to the seat or etc and let them go? The sulky would produce a lot of body own movement and resonance to the boom. It would require a very stiff mic mount. It will require tests how the mic's position and direction changes regularly. 30 minutes ago, daniel said: rycote fur nose bag: https://images.app.goo.gl/iPsrAEcGw7gCBFsV7 Hmm... A mic inside these might produce a "canned" sound, but this is a good approach. However, I'd need to find a way to make it compatible to the snaffle. Great thoughts, thank you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward chick Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Being that it’s a narrative film, can production budget a few hours so you could experiment with different mic placement? T If you have a horse/jockey at your disposal you could mount various mics, and not worry about if camera will see it. You could wire a Lectro PDR or equivalent small recorder and wire the bridle, trying different types of foam on the mic as well as shotgun with a zeppelin on frame of sulky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted January 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 If I get some time at the farms training course, I'll probably boom out of a car (preferrably electro motored) with a SuperCMIT or a KMR82 and try a lav somewhere under the chin. A limiting factor will be the endurance of the horse, so I can't try out forever. I am sceptical if mounting a lav on the bridle will introduce the bribles self noise. The local rental place suggested sticking a lav on the animal at a comparably wind protected place, but I've never sticked anything to living fur before. I wonder what tape is appropriate, if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnnn Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Haven't tried, but if no one have better suggestions, I'd say try 3M Micropore. Don't let anyone stand behind the horse when you pull it off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 3 hours ago, DanieldH said: If I get some time at the farms training course, I'll probably boom out of a car (preferrably electro motored) with a SuperCMIT or a KMR82 and try a lav somewhere under the chin. A limiting factor will be the endurance of the horse, so I can't try out forever. I am sceptical if mounting a lav on the bridle will introduce the bribles self noise. The local rental place suggested sticking a lav on the animal at a comparably wind protected place, but I've never sticked anything to living fur before. I wonder what tape is appropriate, if any. Keep in mind that horses in general are not so fond of boom microphones. If you use a boom you should introduce that tool to the horse/ horses quite carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted January 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 13 minutes ago, jbuerjes said: Keep in mind that horses in general are not so fond of boom microphones. If you use a boom you should introduce that tool to the horse/ horses quite carefully. Definitely. In this particular situation the horse needs to accustom to the entire car, including the boom sticking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwback Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 The obvious solution to me (and just checked with my daughter: a professional horsewoman) is to take advantage of the noseband (the most static part of the tack, going over the nose: if not wearing one then this can be added easily), which can have a sheepskin pad: the lav mic could then be incorporated (with its own fluffy) on the rear side of the nose pad to give it more wind protection. Cheers, Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpro Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 I believe DPA makes some horse lavaliers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted January 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 6 hours ago, drpro said: I believe DPA makes some horse lavaliers!! They have their "heavy duty line" but this is not a task to protect a few X00$ insured lavs but a few X00k$ animals, +some human athlete well-being. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward chick Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 ? I think you are over reacting a touch .. mounting a mic on a horse will not harm it or the sulky driver. Having been to quite a few harness races myself ,until the sport fell to casinos here in Michigan, they are more prone to injury while they trot or some new equine virus. It’s just nature of the event. As for being nervous around an auto, they are trailered to every event. Also, at least in the states, the starting gates are mounted to an SUV which the racers que behind and go 1 lap around the track so everyone is even in the starting line, so I wouldn’t worry too much about how the horse reacts to a vehicle. Let us know what you come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Norris Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 16 hours ago, DanieldH said: I am skeptical if mounting a lav on the bridle will introduce the bridles self noise. The local rental place suggested sticking a lav on the animal at a comparably wind protected place, but I've never stuck anything to living fur before. I wonder what tape is appropriate, if any. I used "Nite Ize Original Gear Ties" to mount a GoPro between the horns of a rather wild bull once. The bull didn't seem to mind and the GoPro survived an hour or so of general running bull stuff. It should be easier to make friends with the horse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joinwooHK Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 parabolic mic ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 On 1/7/2021 at 3:29 PM, joinwooHK said: parabolic mic ? I have one, if you are interested, Daniel. Can‘t tell you if it works for this or not, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted January 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 8 hours ago, Constantin said: I have one, if you are interested, Daniel. Can‘t tell you if it works for this or not, though Thnx, good to know. I'll keep it in mind, if I go to the farm. On the real race, there is hardly a position I can be without any unwanted sounds on axis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Larsen Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 I think it would be really hard to isolate the breathing of a running horse with a parabolic mic. It could be interesting to create sound effects, but of a bigger area of the horse I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 11 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said: I think it would be really hard to isolate the breathing of a running horse with a parabolic mic. It could be interesting to create sound effects, but of a bigger area of the horse I would say. Oh yes, I agree with that, not ideal to catch just the breathing - or at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lezynski Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 Maybe an old ECM-50 in a carrot. ECM-50 was pretty immune to wind with minimal treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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