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Cedar SDNX available on 8 series.


henrimic
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Has anyone else had a lock up since updating to 7.40 while in the noise suppression menu? My Scorpio locked up while I was switching between Noise Assist and Cedar. The pop up that says it’s a demo/beep etc may have been the culprit but I think I’ll downgrade to 7.30 for now. 
 

Although I like the new folder options in 7.40 

 

Re license etc, maybe a license that allows the plug-in to be used on say, 2 devices. For the folks who have 2 x 8 series for example. I have a Scorpio but I’ll be getting an 888 at some point. If I decide to buy a plug-in, it would be nice to have it on both machines for a 2 device fee for example. 
 

Thanks 

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On 1/26/2021 at 1:37 AM, codyman said:

Unrelated however spiritually related, this is why I still like physical media for films and music (especially films).  A lot of people are plopping in their credit card numbers to "buy" movies on iTunes / Amazon etc digitally however if you read the terms and conditions, you actually don't own those movies and they can be revoked from your account on a whim for a myriad of reasons.


And that is really an unfair business model. Especially as they can disable content you have purchased and downloaded. 

8 hours ago, jon_tatooles said:

Comments and discussion regarding plugin topology and licensing are certainly something we are watching.


Thanks for your comments, Jon. While I don’t mind the need to pay this plugin, I certainly do mind that it can‘t be moved fairly eaaily from one recorder to another. For example I could briefly connect my Scorpio to my phone de-authorize the plugin, connect same phone to 888 for mobile use and re-authorize plugin there. It’s still only one instance in use, but would make this far more easier for us to jump the gun and that probably means more licenses sold for you

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6 hours ago, Constantin said:


And that is really an unfair business model. Especially as they can disable content you have purchased and downloaded. 


Thanks for your comments, Jon. While I don’t mind the need to pay this plugin, I certainly do mind that it can‘t be moved fairly eaaily from one recorder to another. For example I could briefly connect my Scorpio to my phone de-authorize the plugin, connect same phone to 888 for mobile use and re-authorize plugin there. It’s still only one instance in use, but would make this far more easier for us to jump the gun and that probably means more licenses sold for you

 

I agree with being able to move the plugin between devices. Even if those devices have to be registered with your SD account a certain number of days beforehand to prove that you own it. Having to purchase multiple instances for people that own multiple 8-series is a little much. It would also help people who have had their units stolen or lost.

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SD built their system to be easy to generate, download and install a light weight license file which enable an already existing function in the recorders firmware. Cant really blame them for that. The simplicity is really good and a solid and production stable solution.

 

The verification of the license is done in recorder. There are no revocation options of a license as the recorder is not an online entity or would require a firmware stored block list to disable an already downloaded file.

 

It's either a good will gesture from SD if a unit is deemed write off or for us to accept and take the loss.

Or perhaps process through the insurance policy in case of an accident.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you have a separate physical Cedar unit it seems it would be easier to charge extra kit cost for that as opposed to a plugin you already have in your recorder you can just turn on whenever you want (although you paid $xxxx for the license but explaining that to a client would be a harder conversation... "but we are already paying you for the sound recorder and that has noise reduction built in now right?")

 

I'd be inclined to get iZotope RX and to try and have them commission me for some post production work, though it depends on the job I guess.

 

My 2cents anyway. It is impressive Sound Devices units have the power for this now though.

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The issues (I guess SD refers to the lock up I experienced) when switching between noise assist and Cedar demo have been addressed in the latest version 7.41. 
 

Thanks SD for rectifying so quickly. 
 

Will update soon. 
thanks 

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1 hour ago, tincali said:

  @Peter Mega how about your experiences trying the demos?  Anyone else?  I've been eyeing an 8 series machine and NR plug-ins make it that much more intriguing to me.  Thanks for any info!


I never really got to try the demos properly because my Scorpio locked up when trying to switch between both. This freaked me out so I promptly downgraded to 7.20 and haven’t updated since. 
 

The issue must be resolved in 7.41 but I won’t know until I update. 
 

So I can’t really comment on the noise reduction demos at this stage. Sorry. 

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I installed 7.41, it seems to run well and it is now easy to toggle between the two noise suppression options.  I tried recording with both a cos11 and MKH 50 with A/C noise, background noise from a cell phone playing city sounds  and outdoors wind noise.  I thought  that the SDNX was significantly better in all cases and seemed to interfere with the voice much less, but again, it would be nice to hear from others what their experience are now that it can be evaluated.  I might spring for the SDNX - it is pretty amazing.

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A gentle reminder from one of your colleagues who has decades of experience doing dialog NR in a post-production studio setting (ie in a far more accurate monitoring setup than what a location recordist has via headphones while being in the environment whose BG noise they are trying to tame).  Noise Reduction on human speech is not "free".  The sound of the voice(s) is always changed by the process, whether you are using a freeware plugin or you have sent your files to the Cedar mothership in Cambridge for processing on their main-frame-level in-house system by their resident experts.  So in honest attentive listening where you are paying attention foremost to the sound of the VOICE, not to the sound of the BG, do not expect that your NRed voices will sound exactly like your unprocessed channels.  The game is deciding how much change to the subtle characteristics of the voices you can live with, AND if the resulting NRed file is actually a better fit for the movie than the non-NR'ed version.  You may be surprised to hear how often directors end up deciding to live with the BG noise in a recording vs an NR'ed version, and I usually agree with them.

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Thank you for this reminder, it is much appreciated.  My plan would be to use the NR to the L/R bus but keep the iso channels untouched and have all available for post.  In addition, at the same level of NR, about -4 to -6db (most that seemed reasonable) I noticed that there was more NR with the Noise Assist, but it sounded to impact the voice more, whereas when I turned on and off the NR with Cedar, I could barely hear a difference in the voice (my own) but I am sure there is some impact.  Again Philip, thank you for your valuable knowledge and help.  

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/10/2021 at 8:35 PM, zernicke said:

Thank you for this reminder, it is much appreciated.  My plan would be to use the NR to the L/R bus but keep the iso channels untouched and have all available for post.  In addition, at the same level of NR, about -4 to -6db (most that seemed reasonable) I noticed that there was more NR with the Noise Assist, but it sounded to impact the voice more, whereas when I turned on and off the NR with Cedar, I could barely hear a difference in the voice (my own) but I am sure there is some impact.

 

I've used the Cedar DNS2 for two years and if the algorithm is equally good in the SDNX-plugin, then you will be able to do at least 4dB of noise reduction without affecting the voice sound quality. If you're super picky, there might be an ever so slight diminishing of the upper mid-range definition, but it's really only audible on really good speakers, and worth it, me thinks. And if you recording in a problematic environment and know that there won't be much sound editing in post, then you can do 6dB noise reduction without even blinking - that's how good the Cedar noise reduction is.

 

What I like most about it, is the way that it's able to attenuate hard reflections and reverberation and just make the voices tighter without imposing its own "sound". The Learn-function - which is permanently enabled in the SDNX-plugin - continuously learns what's voices and what's not in an audio signal. Pretty cool stuff.

 

Traditionally, noise reduction was all about identifying the noise in the signal. Nowadays, noise reduction is all about identifying the voice information in the signal and attenuate the "uninteresting" information - and it's a much better way to do it.

 

When I started using the Cedar DNS2, I enabled the Learn-function to "learn" the sound of a voice and the background noise, then disabled it because with the Learn-function off, the sound quality would be even better, ever slightly so. Nowadays, I just fire up the DNS2 and keep the Learn-function on - because it works so well.

 

I don't work with drama, so I have no problems noise reducing one or two lav mics, but when I record more channels than that, I leave them all unprocessed.

 

Still using a 664, but when I upgrade to 833, I will definitely invest in the SDNX-plugin, because it will make my work sound great. :-)

 

 

Cheers

Fred

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