azw Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 Looking for advice on a long shotgun. I’m currently on a basketball doc and I can’t mic the coach but I need to get his dialogue during practice. Mkh70? Anything better? Just need to pull him closer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moesound Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 AZW, While many of us older sound folks have had great success over the years with the classic long shotgun microphone in various situations and environments, most would say that a basketball gymnasium is not one. If it’s an exterior court, you might have better success; but like all of us filmmakers, the frame pretty much dictates our ability to capture clear dialogue with a boom. In any case, I’d recommend a Schoeps. Despite having used just about every “shotgun” made over my career (Sennheisers, Neumanns, etc), nothing beats a CMC641 for natural clarity. Best of luck, Moe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 An indoor court would basically be a nightmare no matter what mic you have at the end of your boom, unless like stated above, you have something like an mk41 that’s nice and close to the coach. outdoors might be a different story. as far as long shotguns go, I’m a big fan of them. I recommend getting one that matches the mics you already have. If you’re a Schoeps guy, maybe get the Neumann 82i. If you’re using an mkh60 already, maybe go with the mkh70. I have the 82i, the mkh70, and the mkh815T, and love them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Huh, difficult. Maybe it is possible to hide a supercardoid in plain sight? If there are bags n stuff lying around or even ambience microphones (e.g. for tv broadcast) mounted near him, no one would recognize just another (your) mike on a low stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.paterson Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I would try a sanken cs3e its the best shotgun type mic indoors with reflections etc due to its 3 x capsules..has great reach doesnt have as much issues with comb filtering etc as standard interference tube shotgun microphones.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Larsen Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I would second CS3e if you are on the sidelines, headturns will be a problem tho. I havent done basketball, but for football it can be worth considering putting a blimped shotgun on a low stand pointing towards the coach from below and hope for the best if you are not allowed to mic them. If you do this I would consider something that doesnt matter as much if it goes harms way, like a 416 or NTG3 sort of thing, but indoor acoustics and hard floors might make it less of an option again. Maybe a 50 if you can get it planted close enough? Still, I would be horrified to leave a MKH50/CS3e blimped close to the action. Or you could have a chat with production to see if there is any way to put a wireless/track e (if the broadcaster prevents wireless) on him, it's going to be hard to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 But why can't you mic the coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtown Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 On 2/16/2021 at 7:29 PM, JonG said: as far as long shotguns go, I’m a big fan of them. I recommend getting one that matches the mics you already have. If you’re a Schoeps guy, maybe get the Neumann 82i. If you’re using an mkh60 already, maybe go with the mkh70. I have the 82i, the mkh70, and the mkh815T, and love them all. Jon, I see your post here about the long shotguns, and that you have a lot of experience with them. I've been using a Rycote INV 7 HG MkIII mount for medium and short shotguns, but today I was using the mkh70 with a rycote softie that I just acquired and was realizing that I need a heavier duty mount than what Im using on the others, I could get by with it , but not ideal. besides getting an entire zeppelin setup , just being out on a football field I want to use the mkh70 with a rycote softie to keep weight down, which mounts would you recommend? I cant seem to find anything heavier in the invision line, or the cinela line for longer shoguns... I really dont want to have to get a zeppelin for this thing ....yet. Thx- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 Maybe try a parabolic dish mic? Schoeps sell a set with a Telinga dish, for example. They get used a lot in sports, although usually outside. Not sure how it wouls sound, but it might help you with a bit more range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtown Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Constantin said: Maybe try a parabolic dish mic? Schoeps sell a set with a Telinga dish, for example. They get used a lot in sports, although usually outside. Not sure how it wouls sound, but it might help you with a bit more range Might be fun to try but I dont think Ill get much use out of a dish in the long run. I want to keep it on the boom pole, without a huge blimp ... i found this INV-BH ($115) mount which I want to give a try, but realizing reading the specs tthat it maxes out at 500g ? and from my calculations the mic and the rycote 29cm softie together would weigh over 600g so Im wondering how compliant the lyres gonna be , I see its grey colored in this photo, which I beleive is the heavier duty version. I could be wrong though I dont know., just pulling weight stats off of B&H website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 I hated the sound of the dishes indoors, they made it all worse in every way. You have to tell the filmmakers that if you can't get a mic on the coach you aren't going to be able to record what he says a lot of the time. If you can be in close with a boom mic that's good for part of the time (a small part) but being close enough to hear him well (in speech vs yelling) would be much more distracting for everyone (and mess up the shots of other cameras) than getting a wire on him. Don't forget to freq coordinate with the venue/team/broadcasters etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 15 hours ago, soundtown said: I've been using a Rycote INV 7 HG MkIII mount for medium and short shotguns, but today I was using the mkh70 with a rycote softie that I just acquired and was realizing that I need a heavier duty mount than what Im using on the others, I could get by with it , but not ideal. besides getting an entire zeppelin setup , just being out on a football field I want to use the mkh70 with a rycote softie to keep weight down, which mounts would you recommend? I cant seem to find anything heavier in the invision line, or the cinela line for longer shoguns... I really dont want to have to get a zeppelin for this thing ....yet. I don’t really have any advice for you in this regard. Every long shotgun that I’ve purchased has come with its own zeppelin since I’ve managed to get them used. They’re designed for outdoor use and therefore would require wind protection. You could use the mount without the basket, but know that the mount will also clip on the interference tube so that would make using any lighter wind protection difficult. I think you’ll have to bite the bullet and get a zep as I don’t see any other made to order options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted July 9, 2023 Report Share Posted July 9, 2023 Pretty much repeating what Jon just said. I have an 816 and also the long 816 softie ... longer and heavier than the 70 granted but similar physics. The only suitable ‘tail end’ grip I ever found for the 816 (thus allowing use of the softie) is the original MZS 3inch tube thing - which provides ‘enough’ ‘top grip’ to somewhat counter the droop effect. Better for stand use than boom (unless combine with eg Ambient Floater). I have however seen a rycote lyre that must have been designed principally for the 70: it was maybe a double grip combined with a triple lyre system? If you wanted to DIY I would look at making a counterbalance at the suspension end of the mic just by the xlr. This would obviously significantly increase the overall weight but lessen the droop (and include the softie weight into the balance if you do this). But for boom movement use with a shotgun nothing substitutes the long zep. Being able to have a balancing lyre/hoop towards the front makes so much difference. And getting a Rycote WS8 or 7 modular and an additional jammer WJ4 to the WJ8/7 makes an all round great flexible kit for shorter shotguns when just having to choose between. Jez Addendum: re reading your OP I expect the Invision 7 HG Mk III was what I’ve seen: if so, attempting a counterweight or upgrading to zeppelin (dougal in my language) are your options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Nightall Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 On 7/9/2023 at 2:00 AM, The Immoral Mr Teas said: I have however seen a rycote lyre that must have been designed principally for the 70: it was maybe a double grip combined with a triple lyre system? This is not necessary. Go to the rycote website and search for MKH70, they point to the standard WS6 kit with 2 single lyre 82 mounts (see pic). Link: https://mymic.rycote.com/products/windshield-solutions/modular-windshield-kit/modular-windshield-ws-6-kit/ I use exactly this for my MKH70 and it works great. I've seen a lot of long and even short shotguns mounted in the double, double invision mounts which is so stiff they offer little shock dampening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 The issue there Jason is that the OP, soundtown, is trying to get away without using the blimp, just a softie, so the front lyre is in the way. I think we’re all agreed that using a shotgun outside on a pole requires a full zepp, and that allows proper balance as well as suspension dampening and full shielding: bite the bullet and you won’t look back. Putting a softie on a long mic I can only really recommend for fixed stand use (sit down interviews or plants) and I would choose a rigid clip not a suspension clip. If one must compromise with softie and pole try dampening with eg a Floater not lyre system and experiment with a counterweight at the xlr. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 On a side note, watching Wimbledon, I wonder what happens each year with the custom coloured (Wimbledon Green) windjammers? Are they thrown away, good ones kept for next, ...? I guess many of them get some serious washes in British summers ... Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 To keep the profile low at NFL games I use a 70 in a softie and and old KTek suspension. Works a treat. KTek used to make a suspension that was a series of clips that would hold the mic from the side. Unfortunately they don't make this anymore. I think it was the KNS3 Nautilus. If you find an old one hanging about grab it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobi A Posted July 11, 2023 Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 I've found you can just squeeze a MKH70 70 into a Rode blimp with a low profile xlr connector (cable techniques). I don't use the MKH70 much so didn't want to spend the $ on a rycote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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