re: anyone have noise assist?

[Jim Feeley]

I'd guess SD makes a profit on their plugins. And that's good because it means they'll be able to keep making and selling plugins. But I'd guess Cedar, Dugan, and perhaps other companies are getting a decent licensing fee for each copy of the relevant plug-ins sold.

 

And considering the cost to develop the plugins even with some licensed code, and especially the comparatively small market for their plugins, I'd guess their cost-per-customer is fairly high. 

 

I'd further guess this is all obvious. And I'd rather the tools I need cost less. But that's the way it is.

 

And during these pandemic days, I'm cool with SD focusing efforts on producing face shields, which appears to be an ongoing effort.

https://www.sounddevices.com/ppe/

 

A PR article from last year:

https://www.sounddevices.com/sound-devices-face-shield-production-tops-30000-per-day/

 

 

[Constantin]

9 hours ago, Paul F said:

but that Adobe found a brilliant way to monetize themselves and get more money out of customers without coming up with a new product

But it is a new product. Sound Devices came up with a new product, by bringing Cedar Noise Reduction to the 8-series. If anything it’s Cedar who are finding new ways to make money out of an existing product. 
The whole notion of including the ability to have plug-ins within  a recorder is a brand-new idea. Something we‘ve been fantasising about right here some years ago. And now they have made it possible. No other manufacturer has got anything similar. And of course they want to earn money with it. 

[Johnny Karlsson]

Adobe had to do what they did, because millions of people all around the world could previously download their whole suite of products for free from pirate sites that distributed serial numbers and cracked software, so there’s zero surprise that they suddenly started making money once everyone who wanted/needed to use their products actually started paying for them by subscription....

So I would agree with Constantin - not a good comparison.

 

 

 

[IronFilm]

21 hours ago, Constantin said:

Nova: 6 analog inputs, 4 digital. (Btw strange that Zaxcom mention 12 tracks under „specs“), let’s say 16 recording tracks. 

Zaxcom came out with a firmware update (note: not "plugin") that enables recording of 16 channels of audio. 

[Constantin]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Zaxcom came out with a firmware update (note: not "plugin") that enables recording of 16 channels of audio. 

So 16.

What they also did was force you to pay to unlock functions the recorder was already capable of to get from Nomad 10 to Nomad 12. 

[IronFilm]

18 hours ago, Constantin said:

What they also did was force you to pay to unlock functions the recorder was already capable of to get from Nomad 10 to Nomad 12. 

That's also not quite true. As to get the full Nomad 12 feature set it requires a return to the mother ship and a hardware upgrade. This is why you can't get this full Nomad 12 update now. I've asked. 

[filmsalang]

21 hours ago, Constantin said:

So 16.

What they also did was force you to pay to unlock functions the recorder was already capable of to get from Nomad 10 to Nomad 12. 

Not true. Zaxcom only launched full Nomad 12 at the beginning. I bought that machine at that time because no other options on Nomad..then later added other 6/10....which is great for only few inputs needed people with reduced prices as it should. 

If Zax did, SoundDevices must have learnt from them. SD833.....888....Scorpio...?? What's the different??  Just remove in/outputs and add Dante or No Dante. 

[Constantin]

 

Ok fine. I‘m mis-remembering Zaxcom‘s policy. It’s completely beside the point and only a distraction. 
But you two are doing a fine job focussing on where I was wrong instead of where I was right. 
 

 

2 hours ago, filmsalang said:

.then later added other 6/10....which is great for only few inputs needed people with reduced prices as it should. 

Funny you should say that. It’s the same thing Sound Devices are doing, except they are coming in from the other end. Still the same deal: you get to decide what you need and pay accordingly. And you retain the possibility to decide this in the future, as and when you need the extra features 

[kavenzmann]

Maybe that's just me, but things like NoiseAssist or AutoMix have never been part of the official specs.

They were added after and it was clear form the beginning that this is a paid upgrade (not update!) for the recorders.

The good thing is that you don't need to pay for it if you don't need it.

 

I always ask clients what they want and that something like NoiseAssist is availabe if they want.

But it's an extra service. Very simple for my clients, very simple for me.

 

All in all, SD is adding a lot of extras and features for their recorders with additional free updates.

I still feel they listen to customers.

[Michiel]

Software noise reduction on a recorder is probably the worst thing you can do and reduces your gear to the quality of conference calls...

Noise reduction always comes with loss of intelligibility which is even demonstrated in their own product video.

I too would be very p*ssed if i'd get audio delivered like that.

 

Indeed if you apply this plugin to recordings, you have to be absolutely certain there won't be any audio mixing on the project.

Like a live stream. But even then I don't understand why one would not want to experience the location, hear what people are reacting to.

There's are reason this is never done on live TV (do not be mistaken with gating, that's not noise reduction).

[edward chick]

Actually I know sound mixers who work live tv for news networks and use Noise Assist and love it. They consider it a game changer. The A1 in Master Control likes it as well as the Director. I don’t have an 888 yet, but plan on getting one soon. I can’t wait to try NA out. I think what others have stated before me, use it on your LR out, but not the isos, and for film style shoots a conversation ahead of time with Post would be in order as to use or not. 

 

[filmsalang]

On 2/23/2021 at 9:37 PM, Constantin said:

 

Ok fine. I‘m mis-remembering Zaxcom‘s policy. It’s completely beside the point and only a distraction. 
But you two are doing a fine job focussing on where I was wrong instead of where I was right. 
 

 

Funny you should say that. It’s the same thing Sound Devices are doing, except they are coming in from the other end. Still the same deal: you get to decide what you need and pay accordingly. And you retain the possibility to decide this in the future, as and when you need the extra features 

I am not talking about hardware thing, but software price and its policy. 

[Constantin]

4 hours ago, filmsalang said:

I am not talking about hardware thing, but software price and its policy. 

Yes or course! We are talking about the plug-ins. That’s software. Although you were at first complaining in general about Sound Devices prices. That includes hardware. 

and to quote Ironfilm:

„Unfortunately people don't see bits of software the same as they see hardware“

 

And it’s strange how you and Iron won‘t see the irony when you are both exactly like that! It’s software, so it should be free, right?

[filmsalang]

2 hours ago, Constantin said:

Yes or course! We are talking about the plug-ins. That’s software. Although you were at first complaining in general about Sound Devices prices. That includes hardware. 

and to quote Ironfilm:

 

„Unfortunately people don't see bits of software the same as they see hardware“

 

And it’s strange how you and Iron won‘t see the irony when you are both exactly like that! It’s software, so it should be free, right?

Sorry, man. Your memory is pretty bad. Don’t wanna say anymore on this. 

[Constantin]

1 hour ago, filmsalang said:

Sorry, man. Your memory is pretty bad. Don’t wanna say anymore on this. 

Yes, it may well be. This discussion doesn’t rank very high on my list of priorities. 
So in fact, you said this first: 

 

On 2/20/2021 at 5:57 AM, filmsalang said:

Too expensive though. What does SoundDevices  do for field sound workers for this horrible time?? 

 

Not sure what exactly I mis-remembered, but it doesn’t matter anyway, because the basic point I‘ve been trying to get across to you and Ironfilm is still valid. 
 

But feel free to not respond anymore. In this particular discussion that would not be much of a loss anyway

[ninjafreddan]

Late to the party.

 

I've been using a Cedar DNS2 for two years or so, and I think it's fantastic - makes me look (and sound) good in every possible recording situation.

 

Still a 664-user, but I love that Sound Devices offers both NoiseAssist and Cedar noise reduction as an option for the 8-series - for those users that need noise reduction. I had to buy a Cedar DNS2 (currently listed at around $3400).

 

Anyway, is noise reduction really needed on set, and for recording?

 

Well, I started a thread to shed some light on it, including sound clips with and without Cedar DNS2 noise reduction.

 

If you have a minute to spare, please visit it and maybe even contribute with sound clips processed with the NoiseAssist and Cedar sdnx plug-ins. It would be great to be able to compare the results.

 

 

 

Cheers

Frederick

[Richard Ragon]

On 2/21/2021 at 12:44 PM, Paul F said:

The point of the Adobe example is not that it is a subscription service, but that Adobe found a brilliant way to monetize themselves and get more money out of customers without coming up with a new product. Their revenue shot up like a rocket on the simple switch to subscriptions. 

 

Likewise, SD is learning how to better monetize itself.  We all know the margins on hardware are nothing compared to software/firmware margins. The more a company can move to upgrades, firmware, and software, the better off they are. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's foolish not to take advantage of good marketing and find new and more profitable avenues of revenue.

 

 

 

Next stop... You don't actually own a 888, you have to 'subscribe too it'...  LOL

[KenMartini]

On 2/21/2021 at 3:25 AM, Constantin said:

Nova: 6 analog inputs, 4 digital. (Btw strange that Zaxcom mention 12 tracks under „specs“), let’s say 16 recording tracks. 
 

888: 12 inputs total, all available as analog. 20 recording tracks (not 16). 
 

Cantar Mini has a total of 10 inputs, 16 recording tracks. 
 

that mitigates the price difference somewhat. 
 

But let’s not stop the game there. What are the top of the range recorders? 
 

Scorpio: 36 recording tracks, 16 analog inputs. 
$9900

 

Zaxcom Deva 24: 24 recording tracks, 16 analog inputs. 
$12970 (incl. Dante, $11975 without)

 

Aaton X3: 24 recording tracks, 12 analog inputs. $13690 without Dante, $14265 with). 
 

So a Scorpio with Dante AND a full set of Cedar NR plugins is only a bit more than the Deva with Dante but without Cedar, and still cheaper than the X3 even without Dante. 
And if you don’t need the full Cedar, and decide you only need two instances of Cedar you can get a Scorpio for only less than any of the competitors. 
 

If you consider a fully kitted-out Scorpio you‘ll have to pay $13500, so with Cedar, but without NA. A price on par with the competition. Or you can get it for a discounted price of $9900 if you don’t need Cedar. A steal compared to the competition. 
 

Yes it is. Paul Isaacs said so himself (in response to you). So? Are they not allowed to change their business model once in more than 20 years? 
I still find it difficult to compare to the 6/7-series as they never brought anything on such a scale to those recorders as they are doing now. 
and so I don’t really agree even with Paul Isaacs as they never did plug-ins as such before. So it is not really a new business model, it’s an expansion. But the actual firmware update is still free. 

I buy plugins for my Allen & Heath SQ series mixer. This is a model used throughout the sound mixing industry. Sound Devices is joining what is already an established practice.  No complaints here. It just keeps making my equipment more valuable without having to purchase new equipment each time.  It also opens the door to lots of engineering creativity. I am all for rewarding companies that innovate. 

[fuzztech]

Late to this conversation but I think KenMartini has a good point, NA helps sometimes and the cost is reasonable for the value received. I agree with Michiel that "Noise reduction always comes with loss of intelligibility" and this needs to be balanced in the NA settings to get the best mix you can get under the conditions. I disagree that "Software noise reduction on a recorder is probably the worst thing you can do and reduces your gear to the quality of conference calls..." - NA has saved my bacon a couple of times and made things sound worse a couple of times; whenever possible I bounce a raw track so I have one with and one without NA - that too has saved my bacon.