Have you ever turned down a job because it was too dangerous?

[Mark LeBlanc]

Question for yall. Has anyone here ever turned down a job because it would put you and your equipment in harms way? Have a job offer that would require spending a majority of the day chest deep in Swamp water amongst hunters and poisonous snakes. My main recorder is the 788t which is rugged, but not on the level of the Cantar. Got a taste of the job the past two days and found out from the talent that the previous sound guy had a break down on the set along with other drama caused by the producers (Example: today did a 10hr day and the producer didn't feed us, nor did he offer an apology.

Thx

[RPSharman]

I turned down a job once after finding out I would be provided with a bullet proof vest.

Currently I am on a job in the Republic of Georgia.  While I feel absolutely no sense of danger, and see no military presence that would lead me to feel there is any, I suppose some crazy Russian separatist could target our set.  But it seems pretty unlikely.  I'm in more danger of being hit by a car on the way to the bar across the roundabout, which the crew has renamed the "circle of death".

My thought is that there are many dangerous jobs in this world.  Ours usually isn't, but obviously some gigs are dangerous.  If you feel you are not comfortable with your treatment in terms of compensation and/or working conditions, then you are justified in walking away.

Robert

[Eric Toline]

Question for yall. Has anyone here ever turned down a job because it would put you and your equipment in harms way? Have a job offer that would require spending a majority of the day chest deep in Swamp water amongst hunters and poisonous snakes. My main recorder is the 788t which is rugged, but not on the level of the Cantar. Got a taste of the job the past two days and found out from the talent that the previous sound guy had a break down on the set along with other drama caused by the producers (Example: today did a 10hr day and the producer didn't feed us, nor did he offer an apology.

Thx

You couldn't pay me enough to deal with that type of situation. I also turn down any job that even smells like a reality gig. No pack mule audio for me.

Eric

[David Waelder]

You should decline any job you think really hazardous, particularly if you don't have the requisite skills (scuba, camping, skiing, whatever the assignment needs) to assess and control the risks.

Of course, one of the attractions of working in this business is the opportunity for adventure. Particularly when you are young, you shouldn't expect every job to be comfortable. But adventure needn't involve becoming alligator lunch.

If you think the snake and other wildlife risks can be controlled with suitable gear - boots, waders, etc. - you might consider accepting the job with equipment rented for you by production. I think the risks of carrying electronic gear and microphones in chest deep water reasonably exclude using a personal package you rely upon for your regular earning. See if production is willing to rent a recorder and mikes for you so you are not assuming all the risks. You would earn a bit less, of course, but if you weren't anxious about your gear being damaged you might actually be able to enjoy the adventure. You might supplement with your cables and some accessories but let the primary components be rented by production in their name.

Of course, if they absolutely refuse, that tells you something about the risks of working for them.

Not feeding people also tells something but I might overlook one bad occasion. (But not a pattern.)

David Waelder

[John Blankenship]

Only you can assess whether the risks are acceptable to you.  However, sometimes "No" can be the most empowering word in the English language.

I think David's advice is spot on.  You need to be acutely aware of two things:  1) How much personal risk are you willing to assume, and 2) how much risk to your gear are you willing to assume.

For me, one of the danger signs would be if I expressed my concerns to the producers and they responded with anything along the lines that I'm being wimpy or not adventurous enough.  I'd be prepared to bail immediately.  Not because I can't rise to a challenge -- I often welcome that -- but because those are tactics straight out of Manipulation 101 and as such tell me volumes about them and what lengths they'll go to.

I did some field work for the Dr. Phil show once, and when we met up with the producer at her hotel, she told us that she's aware how some producers abuse their crews and that she wasn't like that and that she always liked to take care of her crews.  Then, believe it or not, she told us, "But, I won't be able to do that today."

For eleven hours she had us running up and down the corridors of a large convention center.  During that time we got zero food and about four ounces of water (maybe less).  I ended the day dehydrated and with a headache.

This producer told us that what made her such a good Dr. Phil producer was that she could make anyone cry on camera.

I love seeing Dr. Phil come on the air emoting in his gosh-darn-aw-shucks-honest manner how people should treat each other better.

Ya think?

John B.

[soundtrane]

A friend brought a producer to me who was making a roadie film with almost 80% of the film being shot in a moving car. The actor would be driving the car himself, on a national highway, with no police/highway patrol support and i was asked if i would record sitting in the boot of the car, and it would be closed when in the frame. I threw this guy out of my house.

-vin

[BVS]

I was asked to go into a dugout bunker to be shelled by live Howitzer gunfire...the shells were supposed to land about 100 yards away...but the army had laid dummy explosives to coincide with the landing of the shells right on top of the bunker...I refused as the explosives would have damaged not only my hearing but my mic as well.I never worked with that director again.As I watched the cameraman go into the bunker I turned to the Colonel in charge and said...This is not an exact science is it?...no he said..the shells with the way the wind is blowing could land very close to the bunker...fortunately they didn't.The camera mic did an adequate job.This was an exercise to give the new troops a feeling of being under live gun fire.....shortly after a tank over turned and an Army tank driver was killed and another two seriously injured with burns( not related to our filming).This is not what life is about...it was a TV program FFS.

[Mark LeBlanc]

Good perspectives.. I'm up for adventure, the strange thing were the red flags thrown up by the talent. Apparently they started bets to see how long camera guys would last. None averaged more than 1 week before they left.

[studiomprd]

answer to the OP's basic question: " Have you ever turned down a job because it was too dangerous? "

YES! Absolutely, when I believed it was dangerous for me and / or my gear.

but what is dangerous for me, may be acceptably safe for someone else.

and, BTW, part of that "is it a risk or not?" evaluation includes the compensation.  I will not ever take unacceptable or clearly dangerous work, but may be more "adventerous" for premium pay, with good insurance and proper attention by the producers to safety and ethics.

[stacysound]

Yes

Cheaters.

They required a bullet proof vest for crew. The host had previously been stabbed. No thank you.

[Philip Perkins]

Yes, I left a job because after the first 3 days there were three very dangerous components in play all the time: firearms, alcohol and hubris.  My wife forbade me to take another job after the flak-jackets were mentioned.

Philip Perkins

[David Lezynski]

Hey all....... New kid here.  As the budgets fall and pseudo producers grind their pathetic budgets/schedules, and throw pitiful crews into the chipper, safety sometimes is an afterthought.  Recently, in San Francisco, in two seperate incidents, a Video Assist OP was grazed in the head by a camera car arm and examined at the hospital, and an assistant camera got bashed in the head and needed some staples in her melon.  I'm sorry I don't have first hand details. Mssr Perkins?

I don't beleive that any experienced AD is going to let any of the crew be put in harm's way, but sometimes the lack of Walkies, lack of  2nd ADs, Fatigue, Time Pressure, premature wrap of Police/Safety Services, and diminishing light just after magic hour can converge to make an unsafe situation.  Mostly, I  blame the lack of resources for any given incident.  Sometimes I Blame inexperience, and the lack of vigilence. 

In my career, I have said No to about 5 unsafe circumstances, been fired twice and have no regrets.......  Alcohol/Automobiles, HipHop/Firearms, Military Weapons, Construction Cranes, Rotting Flesh/Biohazard...... and a couple of others, I'm sure.

Last week I had the good fortune to work for National Geographic on the Oakland Bay Bridge Modification....... huge construction project, huge machinery, extreme heights, torches, hydraulics, flying debris, ........ the standing order of the day was: "If anyone feels unsafe or sees anything unsafe, we will stop and make ourselves safe"  Hats off to our seasoned producer......

Dave Lezynski, Oakland,CA

 

[JDirckze]

We were surrounded by armed bandits in a remote village in Venezuela whilst filming a group of religious devotees known as the Cult of Maria Lionza. Luckily we had 2 of the biggest Venezuelan body guards with us, who were also armed. The bandits surrounded us as we slept in our hammocks, we didn't have a clue until we woke early the next morning. For the rest of the trip we were on high alert, and had to be escorted everywhere by our body guards. A few times we were bundled in to our car and driven away at high speed because of other suspicious cars in the area.

[ProSound]

I don't beleive that any experienced AD is going to let any of the crew be put in harm's way,

 

That isn't true many sound mixers here have stories of climbing into trunks for free driving shots on some very big movies. I have done a few shows (early in my career) where I had to wear a vest but I was single and reckless then. Now I don't think my girlfriend would allow it........

[Eric Toline]

I don't understand why the "my wife forbade it & my girlfriend won't allow it" words would have any bearing on what jobs are taken.

Eric

[RPSharman]

I don't understand why the "my wife forbade it & my girlfriend won't allow it" words would have any bearing on what jobs are taken.

Eric

It's a great excuse for not doing something you don't want to do.  "Hold me back before I run in there and kick his ass!"

[Last Rites Films]

For eleven hours she had us running up and down the corridors of a large convention center.  During that time we got zero food and about four ounces of water (maybe less).  I ended the day dehydrated and with a headache.

I agree with Mr. Blankenship. It seems like the biggest danger on a film set lately is a lack of food and water. I've been chewed out many times before, but it's a REAL risk and the folks running the show need to recognize that.

I'm just getting started in sound, but this has been a consistent problem already. Is it too much to ask for a meal every six hours and having water readily available? It's in their interest to provide these things, isn't it? A well-fed, hydrated crew will produce BETTER results; mainly because their hands aren't shaking!

[Laurence]

Is it too much to ask for a meal every six hours and having water readily available? It's in their interest to provide these things, isn't it?

You bet it's in their best interest to feed the crew... not only from the perspective of crew productivity, but also from the perspective of the California Division of Labor Standards (and probably regulated by other states, as well.)  This has nothing to do with unions.  For film and tv, State law requires a meal after 6 hours.  Anything longer is a violation.  The primary exception is for an IA crew, in which the same rule is in effect but the Producer has the option to pay a meal penalty if they wish to exceed 6 hours.  Non-union productions do not have that luxury and are in immediate violation after 6 hours.  These people will enforce the rule... http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/DistrictOffices.htm

Laurence

[Jimmy Tuffrey]

Personally I have a flask of coffee, a bottle of water and often some sandwiches in my kit.  We are all responsible for our safety and I would always have a back up water supply in the boot of the car. Who want's to be at the productions mercy for a drink? Not me.

[DBurnette]

Heh. This has been an interesting thread. I always keep a water bottle and a couple snack bars in my kit. I've passed out once (before working in film) from a lack of food and water, and don't want to do that again. I will have to look up labor laws in my state. It would be a good stick to have if I ever need to proverbially hit a producer, but they should know better anyway.

In terms of turning down work, I've never been confronted with an extremely unsafe situation...A couple of slow car rides around residential neighborhoods tucked in a back seat, but nothing I would consider dangerous. I have some rigging equipment, protective clothing, etc., so I might offer a solution to a production instead of saying "no" right off, but if it is outside the realm of manageable risk, I'm out.

Funny...My girlfriend has never objected to any of the film work, but she was not happy when I told her that a season with the Forest Service's hotshots might be an option for me while we are in geographic limbo, as she hunts for work after grad school.

[Philip Perkins]

Hey all....... New kid here.  As the budgets fall and pseudo producers grind their pathetic budgets/schedules, and throw pitiful crews into the chipper, safety sometimes is an afterthought.  Recently, in San Francisco, in two seperate incidents, a Video Assist OP was grazed in the head by a camera car arm and examined at the hospital, and an assistant camera got bashed in the head and needed some staples in her melon.  I'm sorry I don't have first hand details. Mssr Perkins?

dave Lezynski, Oakland,CA

 

The car driver got a cue to "go" when the grips weren't ready (not holding the arm) with a heavy camera and remote head on one end and a lot of weight in the bucket.  My friend was lucky the arm just panned and didn't crane up as well.....  The other case was bad luck--falling light stands when someone tripped.

The guys I used to travel with a lot shooting and I opted out of several dangerous situations over the years, among them working in a very avalanche-prone are of the Alps late in the season, and shooting out of a Cambodian military helicopter that would be be flying over territory still held at that time by the Khmer Rouge.  Fortunately production agreed....

Philip Perkins

[Freeheel]

I'm in Northern Iraq right now, with four full time armed guards, and I felt comfortable taking the job because of the exhaustive job the producers did to make us secure.  We have a 62 page security protocol detailing eventualities and how to deal with them.  We are also in an area of Kurdistan that is fairly stable.

I do a lot of background research on the producers/ directors and production companies of shoots like this and base my decisions on whether to participate based on their level of concern for my safety, and whether I think I have the training to be comfortable in the environment.

Ironically, one shoot I turned down on the basis of safety  involved a gospel choir travelling across the Northern US in the dead of winter in two Greyhound type buses.  I had a bad feeling about road travel at that time and turned the show down (with a lot of deliberation, since it was a producer who I really wanted to work with)  On day two of the shoot one of the buses was hit by a tractor trailer and 16 cast and crew were medivac'd to hospital. 

So trust your instincts and know your own abilities.  I feel comfortable going into sketchy mountain terrain in the winter because I have a lot of training in that area, (I've been a mountain rescue volunteer for 15 years in Vancouver) so I know what the dangers are and can control my own safety in that situation.  However,  I was asked to do a combat shoot in Afganistan a while ago, and I turned it down.  The producer was fantastic, and was very concerned about crew safety, but I felt like I didn't have the necessary skills to be in a live fire combat situation.

And just always keep your eyes open - the 62 page security protocol for Iraq didn't say anything about the enormous scorpions that have been chasing us around our bedrooms...

cheers

Brent Calkin

[johnpaul215]

We all have our own limits to what is a comfortable work situation. To me there is a difference between a dangerous/risky job, and working for a bunch of jerks. Not giving you breaks, food and water is nonsense. To me that boils down to a situation where they screwed up and should have had a second crew. It's either poor planning or trying to save money. Neither one speaks well of the client. The camera and sound packages weigh significantly more than a clipboard, so hopefully you are on the same page as the camera op. That was a nice side effect of working on a show shot on the Sony 790 or 900. The camera op felt the weight before I did. Not the case as much when working with something small and light.

Dangerous situations are different. In theory, you should be aware of what you are getting into before the job starts. If you sign up to work on COPS or Deadliest Catch, you know what you can expect. I have definitely been in situations where the producer had NO idea the situation they were putting us in, and was caught up in the moment to get the shot.

I spent most of last year wearing a bullet proof vest and would do that job again without hesitation if/when they call for another season. That being said there are other situations I would not be so comfortable in for my own personal safety, or the safety of my gear. Like I said above, I have my lines of comfort and don't need work bad enough to take something I find too risky...... though I do like a bit of adventure. 

If you are not happy about the situation, you are not going to focus on your work. There will always be a mixer and camera op more reckless than you, and there will always be work that's less risky. A lot of those dangerous jobs don't pay much/any better than the safe ones, so you might as well leave them for people looking for the adventure and adrenaline rush.