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Shotgun Mic Recomendations


Blackdawg
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Hi all, 

 

I have a been using a Schoeps CMIT 5 for years now and while it does a pretty reasonable job, sometimes its just to edgy/bright for sources. 

 

I have used MKH416s but its been a real long time. Considering getting one though, would it be a good one to have on hand? 

 

Any others worth looking at? I've thought about grabing and MK41 capsule as well. MKH 8060? DPA 4017?

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15 hours ago, Blackdawg said:

Hi all, 

 

I have a been using a Schoeps CMIT 5 for years now and while it does a pretty reasonable job, sometimes its just to edgy/bright for sources. 

 

I have used MKH416s but its been a real long time. Considering getting one though, would it be a good one to have on hand? 

 

Any others worth looking at? I've thought about grabing and MK41 capsule as well. MKH 8060? DPA 4017?

 

Hello Blackdawg,

 

Preferences about subjective choices (such as microphones) seldom reveal anything new in such a small community as ours, mainly because there are relatively few to choose from.

And everybody has a favorite and most of us think we’re right, and we never miss an opportunity to express our opinion.

 

So I’ll continue the tradition: The CMIT is a fantastic microphone in the right circumstances (certain exteriors), but rarely my choice on any interior scene. That’s why I have one, and love it when the situation calls for it. But 90% of the time I choose the Schoeps 641. Interior and most exterior scenes it’s my first choice. But I’d say once or twice a year I’ll break out the old Neumann 82 (extreme wind, etc). Also, in the right hands and circumstances, a Neumann 81 is a handy old standby.

 

BTW, you can’t go wrong with any of the mics you mentioned above. I’ve owned and used them all. 

 

There you have it: another old mixers opinion on the record!

 

Regards,

Moe

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The choice of boom mic. esp. for interiors, is one of the most personal (and consequential) choices a PSM will make about their gear.  That mic will really define your "sound".  I encourage you to take the time to try out every mic that interests you in the sort of situations you encounter.   Re: the 416: there is a reason why it has lasted so long in the kits of sound people the world over.  It may not be your #1 choice, but it always seems to "just work" pretty well for anything, is very robust and very RF and moisture-immune.  I like having one along on every job I do, even if it gets deployed only once in awhile.

 

 

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Agree with everything above. I rarely use my 416s anymore but it is still my favorite mic. Super rugged, no humidity issues and great sound. Especially in the hands of a skilled boom operator sometimes it's *almost* magic.

 

The CMIT5U is my go to for narrative as it's just more forgiving (especially when there's no rehearsals, multiple cameras, etc) and better matches my 41s which I use for plants. I have sometimes switched to the 416 and even the 816 once or twice on exteriors where the background noise was just too much.

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2 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

I like having one along on every job I do, even if it gets deployed only once in awhile.

+11.
I had a 816 as well, but I can only recall using that on a very few scenes in 20 years, including many documentaries.

Surprisingly, the 416 is also the favored mic for some big-name VO artists.

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Yes, it used to be that the 2 mics you saw in pro VO studios all the time were a U87 and a 416--it was assumed that you had these in addition to anything else you might want to try.  Speaking low directly into a 416 very close is the "sound" of a lot of famous male voice actors and VO artists.  ("ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN.....IN  A WORLD WHERE..." and so on.)

 

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A 416 is nothing I'd recommend buying in todays world unless you know exactly what you want to do with it (e.g. VO-Artist). In fact, I've canceled a feature film booming job as soon as it turned out to be mainly with a 416. On another job, I talked the mixer into using my 8060. The 416 may still not be a bad mic in particular applications and it was one of the best mics for film booming at the time. Many people here still carry it around because it was and is a popular "1st professional mic in a career" thing due to its legend and works as a backup. Booming with it is a pain as it is unforgiving and "aggressively" emphasizing hi mid to hi frequencies on axis. In my world of digital cameras, few to no rehearsals and variegating actors, it is not my tool any more though I've learned how to operate it back in the days.

If you are looking for a classic premium shotgun people use

Sennheiser MKH 60 & 8060

Neumann KMR-81

Schoeps CMIT that you already have (including the Mini and for special applications the Super)

DPA 4017

Sanken CS-3e

 

I haven't operated the latter 2.

 

All of these are not any more in the 416 price range.

Sanken, Audio Technica, Sennheiser(, maybe Røde?) and recently Rycote offer products in the 416 price range.

 

If you are only looking for just a second mic, my next would be a (or better 2) supercardioids like some Schoeps 41 or MKH-50/8050 for indoor dialogue or a Sanken CS-M1 that is a really compact shotgun. So far, I have an 8060 for low to mid noise environments and a SuperCMIT for special loud situations for booming.

 

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I’ve beeing using CMIT5U over 11years, Still my first choice for in/out door shoot. These days I hardly use my indoor gefell m310 Hypercardioid for multicam shoot which is hard to get the reach, and am considering buy Sanken CS-M1 cause CMIT is quite lengthy needing more compact set up.

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13 hours ago, Moesound said:

 

Hello Blackdawg,

 

Preferences about subjective choices (such as microphones) seldom reveal anything new in such a small community as ours, mainly because there are relatively few to choose from.

And everybody has a favorite and most of us think we’re right, and we never miss an opportunity to express our opinion.

 

So I’ll continue the tradition: The CMIT is a fantastic microphone in the right circumstances (certain exteriors), but rarely my choice on any interior scene. That’s why I have one, and love it when the situation calls for it. But 90% of the time I choose the Schoeps 641. Interior and most exterior scenes it’s my first choice. But I’d say once or twice a year I’ll break out the old Neumann 82 (extreme wind, etc). Also, in the right hands and circumstances, a Neumann 81 is a handy old standby.

 

BTW, you can’t go wrong with any of the mics you mentioned above. I’ve owned and used them all. 

 

There you have it: another old mixers opinion on the record!

 

Regards,

Moe

 

Haha valid points on the microphone question in general. I do mainly music recording so know this is a silly question in a lot of ways. But always helpful to get a bead on things. 

 

Funny you mention exteriors, as honestly I don't think I've ever use the CMIT outside and not liked it. Really inside is where it can be, lets say questionable. So that might be more the area I need to focus on. You say Schoeps 641, im assuming you mean a CMC6 with an MK41 capsule? That is on my list to get. I have a ton of CMC6 amplifers for music recording with almost a dozen capsule options. Seems like a good move. 

 

The DPA also really interests me as I use DPAs in lots of other ways, my Lavs are all DPAs too. 

 

I appreciate the insight and knowledge!

 

 

Monte

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

The choice of boom mic. esp. for interiors, is one of the most personal (and consequential) choices a PSM will make about their gear.  That mic will really define your "sound".  I encourage you to take the time to try out every mic that interests you in the sort of situations you encounter.   Re: the 416: there is a reason why it has lasted so long in the kits of sound people the world over.  It may not be your #1 choice, but it always seems to "just work" pretty well for anything, is very robust and very RF and moisture-immune.  I like having one along on every job I do, even if it gets deployed only once in awhile.

 

 

 

I certainly have the budget to purchase a couple and try out. Not super concerned with costs of any of them, they all seem reasonable. 416 is of course quite cheaply priced I think. Still might be worth a listen. I think the 416 and the 4017 and MK41 are my current short list. 

 

7 hours ago, tourtelot said:

Don't overlook the Sankens.  I had a CS3e and it was MY favorite of all.

 

D.

 

I have no experience with the brand really. Have eye balled a few of their mics though. They make an M/S one I've thought about getting to mount on our cameras for a decent camera mic. 

 

7 hours ago, DanieldH said:

A 416 is nothing I'd recommend buying in todays world unless you know exactly what you want to do with it (e.g. VO-Artist). In fact, I've canceled a feature film booming job as soon as it turned out to be mainly with a 416. On another job, I talked the mixer into using my 8060. The 416 may still not be a bad mic in particular applications and it was one of the best mics for film booming at the time. Many people here still carry it around because it was and is a popular "1st professional mic in a career" thing due to its legend and works as a backup. Booming with it is a pain as it is unforgiving and "aggressively" emphasizing hi mid to hi frequencies on axis. In my world of digital cameras, few to no rehearsals and variegating actors, it is not my tool any more though I've learned how to operate it back in the days.

If you are looking for a classic premium shotgun people use

Sennheiser MKH 60 & 8060

Neumann KMR-81

Schoeps CMIT that you already have (including the Mini and for special applications the Super)

DPA 4017

Sanken CS-3e

 

I haven't operated the latter 2.

 

All of these are not any more in the 416 price range.

Sanken, Audio Technica, Sennheiser(, maybe Røde?) and recently Rycote offer products in the 416 price range.

 

If you are only looking for just a second mic, my next would be a (or better 2) supercardioids like some Schoeps 41 or MKH-50/8050 for indoor dialogue or a Sanken CS-M1 that is a really compact shotgun. So far, I have an 8060 for low to mid noise environments and a SuperCMIT for special loud situations for booming.

 

 

How do you boom the SuperCMIT? Do you have a stereo boom pole? Of just use the one output? 

 

I do think getting an MK41 is my next move and I'd love to try the DPA one as I use their stuff a lot and really like it. 

 

Appreciate the feedback and perspective. 

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49 minutes ago, Blackdawg said:

How do you boom the SuperCMIT? Do you have a stereo boom pole? Of just use the one output? 

Mostly digitally cabled to a soundbag (via XLR3). Putting 1 or 2 TX, a TRX743 or some small 2CH recording on the Mini-DA42 is possible and I have done so, yet not with my units at the time. (The TRX743 does not need the DA42)

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~I'd love to try the DPA one as I use their stuff a lot and really like it~
 

~The DPA also really interests me as I use DPAs in lots of other ways, my Lavs are all DPAs too~
 

I absolutely LOVE all my DPA microphones…i have the CMIT5u and it pairs nicely with my 4017c to my ears.   The size and reach is pretty intense for how short this mic is, some have commented about handling issues but I haven’t had any. My Lav’s are 6061’s and 4060’s and then I’ll toss out my  4097’s at any chance I get. The sound is just….perfect. My only regret with my DPA’s is that I didn’t jump on them sooner….I was Sanken cos-11s for many years. Then I went fully in  with DPA and haven’t looked back. 
 

the 416 is a champ…absolutely can’t go wrong. I only sold mine after not using it as much due to already having a MKH60…and CMIT5u…and 4017c…etc ….you get the idea…

 

but of course as everyone said. It’s a very personalized choice and definitely defines your sound. Good luck! 

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The MKH50 is a nice warm mic for interiors, but be careful when booming because it has a noticeable change in bass if you get slightly off-axis. 
 

my favorite mic is the Sanken CSM1. But it’s also very bright. I don’t think bright is a bad thing. I prefer my 50 for narratives, but use the M1 for interviews. 

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Yes, the Schoeps with an Mk41 head is a great dialog mic but it will not replace, let's call it, a short shotgun.  Whether this is a 416, a 60, a CS3e or a Rode, it's a different mic for a different shot.  If you are working dramatic narrative, you will need both types and at some point in a successful career, a pair of both types.  They are tools. If you are a homeowner, you might have a hammer.  If you are a professional woodworker, you will have a whole toolbox full of hammers of different uses.  You'll like some hammers better than others and use some hammers more.  But you'll have them all.

 

D.

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On 11/17/2021 at 4:59 PM, tourtelot said:

Don't overlook the Sankens.  I had a CS3e and it was MY favorite of all.

 

D.

Yep.

 

I have two 3e’s, an M1, 641 and MKH50.  The 3e’s see probably at least 90% of the action.  They seem to be at home in almost any reasonable situation you throw them.  

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