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4 Primo EM272 (omni mic) for surround ambient recording?


Dan Wake
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Do you think it may works well to use 4 Primo EM272 for surround field recording? At which distance would you mont them and in which configuration? Are omni mics good for this use?
I need the recordings to use in films and documentaries. I need to avoid phase cancellation.

thx for help!

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I use two of them in combination with a really small Sony recorder.

For it's size, the whole set is beautiful, but I wouldn't consider these as the right mics to use for film/doco shootings.

You need a mount and windjammer - preferably a basket with lots of space around the mics (Rycote BabyBall Gag x4) on a spider or surround cross.

But 4 omnis are not good for film/surround either.

 

You better use a double M/S or Ambisonic configuration in a basket.

That's the only really portable surround combo.

 

Have a look here:

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/immersive-sound-object-based-audio-and-microphones

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11 hours ago, kavenzmann said:

I use two of them in combination with a really small Sony recorder.

For it's size, the whole set is beautiful, but I wouldn't consider these as the right mics to use for film/doco shootings.

You need a mount and windjammer - preferably a basket with lots of space around the mics (Rycote BabyBall Gag x4) on a spider or surround cross.

But 4 omnis are not good for film/surround either.

 

You better use a double M/S or Ambisonic configuration in a basket.

That's the only really portable surround combo.

 

Have a look here:

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/immersive-sound-object-based-audio-and-microphones

Hi, thx for reply I'm very grateful.
 

I have read that Ambisonic can create phase cancellation issues for cinema. 


source should be in this old topic:

 

 

Why 4 omnis aren't  good for film/surround? I wish to know more please

 

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I'm no hands-on expert in this but from what I've learned and tried out in mixing studios it's all about de-correlation if you want to make it work in cinemas. So even MS/DMS ambiences have the problem that the stereo/surround image only works properly when sitting in the sweet spot. Sitting slightly out of center will already shift the percieved center of the ambience. So the less correlation you have between the channels L and R (or LS and RS) the more the sweet spot is extended to an area of "seats" where you still percieve the ambience as "surrounding" you.

So yeah, using directional mics helps de-correlating but you can also achieve that with omnis by larger spacing. Not very handy though to have a setup of omnis with a spacing of 1,5 m...

Sometimes it even works to use a long take of an ambience in mono, copy it to 4 quad channels and just de-correlate each channel by adjusting the postition on the timeline. Works well for rather static noise-like ambiences without discrete information.

 

This sweet-spot problem only applies to static ambiences as far as I know. Movements like cars driving by work fine in small setups .

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On 12/13/2021 at 7:31 AM, kavenzmann said:

Because there is absolutely no directionality. Setup with a clear direction are preferred here.

I'd like a card or hyper card as center mic.

 

Usability and shockmount/windprotection is another issue with an all omni setup, too.

Thx for help, does it change anything about good directionality for the purpose if I mount the 4 omni on a sort of jecklin disk? 

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4 hours ago, kavenzmann said:

Yes for Stereo Recordings, but  Jecklin disc in a surround rig?

Never heard of that.

Can you tell me if for stereo recording using two omni on a jecklin disk it could cause phase cancellation issues in a big cinema theatre? Is jecklin a good technique also for cinema? Thx a lot!

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I often use two Mikrousi pro’s — with the jecklin disk being my sound bag — and I think it really sounds incredible, as long as you’re not dealing with a lot of wind or quiet sounds! I believe they are just custom clippy’s.

 

I have unfortunately not heard my recordings in a large theater or on a surround system (someday!). I would also be curious to know more about playback in such an environment. Perhaps comparing a sort of quadrant jecklin disk to other surround format recordings would be a fun experiment.
 

A bit off topic, but I have experienced issues with mono compatibility. One day I was listening to one of my mixes on AirPods Pro with spatial audio turned on, and encountered severe phasing issues. I assume this is because the spatial audio algorithm sums a stereo mix to mono and uses hrtf’s to playback with head rotation factored in. IMO they should not have this feature for stereo mixes! 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/15/2021 at 9:37 PM, Ian Berman said:

I often use two Mikrousi pro’s — with the jecklin disk being my sound bag — and I think it really sounds incredible, as long as you’re not dealing with a lot of wind or quiet sounds! I believe they are just custom clippy’s.

 

I have unfortunately not heard my recordings in a large theater or on a surround system (someday!). I would also be curious to know more about playback in such an environment. Perhaps comparing a sort of quadrant jecklin disk to other surround format recordings would be a fun experiment.
 

A bit off topic, but I have experienced issues with mono compatibility. One day I was listening to one of my mixes on AirPods Pro with spatial audio turned on, and encountered severe phasing issues. I assume this is because the spatial audio algorithm sums a stereo mix to mono and uses hrtf’s to playback with head rotation factored in. IMO they should not have this feature for stereo mixes! 

Hi thx for your feedback and happy new year! 

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