788T/Fusion comparison and advice

[Philip Perkins]

I forget what Fostex did about it, but what does SD do when files get too large and need to be segmented? I feel like the scene_take name scheme goes goofy when that happens, especially considering some of the unconventional things I have seen on slates.

Speaking for myself, that never happens even in concert shoots because I record in mono (or stereo) files, not polys.

phil p

[Fernando]

anyone with a Fusion want to weigh in on the 10 vs 12 track choice? There is an obvious appeal to the extra two tracks, but is there any regret to losing the 10-pin output?

I know some people use the db25 connectors in a bag, but I have a feeling a lot of my bag work on features (car inserts whatnot) could work with the 10-pin output (feeding comteks and a camera scratch track).

I don't find the DB-25 location-friendly, but that's me. Much less in a bag.

I already miss discrete outputs in my Deva V (same as Fusion 10 in this respect) but I can live making special cables using the Hirose 10, but I could not do with just the DB25 for outputs, no way for me.

So, I'd keep the Hirose 10 pin and let go the two extra tracks and four inputs for now...

Ideally, I'd like two more inputs (total 10) and 12 tracks AND have the outputs on audio connectors...

I'd do that by having mic/line inputs 7-8 on a XLR5f where the IN7 currently is located (so you can use a stereo cable directly, great for stereo boom, remote stereo pair or just two wireless ch.) and another XLR5f, where IN8 is now, for Line IN 9-10.

That would be the "Fusion-10-Special"     10 inputs, 12 tracks,  4 TA3 outs, 2 XLR5m outs and TA3 return, outs and ret. as in pic below...

It could look similar to this (rough!) minus the two XLR5 inputs :

[Marc Wielage]

Doh! Don't taunt me. The DB25 connector is the bane of my existance. In fact, I wouldn't be unhappy if all of the inputs and outputs on that side of my 5.8 were TA3's. I bet you could easily fit 16 that way.

Zaxcom has definitely taken a step in this direction with the Nomad. Fernando, if you decide to go into the modification business, let me know!

--Marc W.

[Zack]

The DB-25 is a bit undesired ya, but it's hardly been a problem for me, even in the bag....... yet.

[Paul Graff]

I don't find the DB-25 location-friendly, but that's me. Much less in a bag.

I already miss discrete outputs in my Deva V (same as Fusion 10 in this respect) but I can live making special cables using the Hirose 10, but I could not do with just the DB25 for outputs, no way for me.

So, I'd keep the Hirose 10 pin and let go the two extra tracks and four inputs for now...

{snip}

I could not disagree more. The DB-25 has been extremely location-friendly for me... almost always in a bag. First, I could never get by with two outputs, so I have always used the DB-25 with the original Fusion (I had the second or third Fusion made, I believe) and then for last two years with Fusion 12. The DB-25 has remained connected in the bag for many dozens of airplane rides and plenty of of other daily abuse with NO failure ever. It has NEVER failed. Sits well protected in AO-4 with 45 degree custom cable from Remote Audio. I love having access to all my connectors on pigtails in the front pouch without having to wrestle with sticky TA-3s on the side of the machine. I have Hirose 10-pin with return off of the DB-25 on my F12, so no loss of use there. Search my posts for pictures.

Anyway, I am used to TA-3s on all my SD machines and will live with them on the Nomad. Probably a better or at least more widely-liked solution, but they are every bit as delicate. It's funny that I disconnect all the connectors when I pack my SD mixers and recorder, but leave them plugged in on my Fusion (except lemo and power). Happy to see the Lemo TC connector go on the Nomad.

These varied preferences makes me sympathize with manufacturers trying to make everybody happy!

Paul

[Fernando]

Paul, I saw the picutres of your DB-25 cables and look pretty rugged (and very cool btw). But I think the connection feels weak... (it was not made for constant connection/disc or to be used outdoors) and that is not easy to make new cables for different uses. And if you have an universal cable then you are adding weight because all the double connections...

But it's great to have your testimonial about tough work using it, pictures, etc. Thanks a lot!

I'll try my best to believe in the DB-25

OTOH, I don't have any special love for TA3 or TA5, cable connectors are usually flimsy (chassis conn. are usually fine) but I consider them a viable alternative when space is tight and you need to be lightweight.

I'd use only XLR3 and 5 and 1/4'' connectors if I could! LOL Really!

Tough and fast to solder no matter where you are working. And you can have two good shielded cables coming out of an XLR5 for instance

---

>Fernando, if you decide to go into the modification business, let me know!

LOL!

Marc, I don't think that would be a good business! It's more a DIY with help from a good tech service.

Anyway, the current proposal for the Fusion-10 (picture above) could be done IF there's room inside... Just get a new blank aluminum side panel and reconnect. Only a pair of outputs (5 and 6) will be redundant and unused since they are currently duplicated (DB-25 and Hirose). It would be heaven for all those not liking the DB-25 and maybe cheaper than all the DB-25 cables, incl. spares, that may be needed.

From time to time I tell (beg) manufacturers but I guess they think I'm mad and have too much free time... But hey, sometimes I -might- have good hardware or software ideas and I tell them for free! with the best of my intentions and trying to work in benefit of our community (difficult and dangerous task since we all don't see things the same way, but I try to do my best!

The first pictures (simulation) I sent went to Zaxcom, long ago, a modified Deva II side panel with TA3 connectors istead of the DB-25! So I've been fighting for too long in this case...

[Fernando]

Back to topic... one more diference between Fusion and 788:

- File name / metadata

On the 788, currently there is an unavoidable link between file name and scene/take metadata and this is an issue for some (I believe this is problematic myself)

I've been suggesting SD some solutions for this.

You can edit metadata during and after recording but modifying scene and take fields will change file name!

I suggested SD to give the option of making the file's name out of the Tape/Roll name plus the "program number" so one can have unique sequential file names (as in Deva/Fusion) and keep metadata in it's own place. This can be done even preserving the current link between file name and metadata.

- I'm trying to collect info about real-life power consumption of the 788 but it's not being easy since there are many variables. But I'm interested in this subject.

- One more diff: the 788 has no return connector. You have to use a normal input or a CL-9. The Fusion-10 has it on the Hirose. The 12 in the DB-25 IIRC.

Return is important for me. I use it for private communication with boom ops.

- And one more: the 788 timecode circuit seems to be more accurate than Deva/Fusion implementation. No problem in some cases but I think it should be upgraded any time soon. I suggested Z that it may be a good idea to collaborate with Denecke for this, as SD did with Ambient...