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788T/Fusion comparison and advice


gabi
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  • 10 months later...

Hi Gabi,

The Fusion and Deva touch screens have been upgraded to a new display that are very bright and higher contrast than our original screen. The new screens are sealed better so any user experience should be with our newer screens to be relevant to your decision.

The main things to look at when buying our recorder is the touch screen interface, the MARF file system and its enhanced reliability over FAT32 file systems, 8 output buses with digital direct outs, ability to record up to 12 ISO tracks directly from the inputs with or without internal mixing, multi fader control surface interface, Zax-Net wireless remote control interface, Channel effects including EQ notch filter delay and softknee compressors, and the ability to infinitely buffer the audio so that DVD-RAM recordings are never missing audio due to bad media, very low power consumption and no detectable heating of the case. There are many more features but these are the main differences between the Fusion and other products on the market.

Glenn Sanders

President Zaxcom Inc.

Hi, Glen, 

 

Please, can you talk about the gain differences (up to 10dB) among the 8 inputs of Fusion 10/12? 

Is it possible to solve w/  firmware? 

Serial of my Fusion: 20166

Tks,

Gabriel

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  • 1 month later...

hi everybody, i've been far from the site for a long time working around...

but now i have a few questions i hope you could help e in replying.

so, i'm going to buy in few days my first fusion 12 (i hope nab will not make my decision time wrong...) and, despite of reading the user guide, i have a couple of doubts again:

1. Outputs. Is it true that i could assign to the outputs only the inputs signal and NOT the tracks (as for example i can do with cantar)?

2. Slate. Is there an option to choose at the moment if i want to record my words trought slate, or simply send it to my boom operator, in example? i know that in the cantar this is possible pressing (to record) or not (it doesn't record) the shift button while the black button on the crown.

3. Sound reports. Is there someone that could post an example of the sound report that fusion generate (i was not able to see it anywhere)?

i hope i'm not forgetting other questions, maybe i will add something later.

thank you everybody, v.

ps. where is the 'Deva Users Group'? it semms i'm not able to find it on internet, my fault...

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Since this thread was revived, I would like to have some additional insight concerning 788T and Fusion differences.

I have been using a 788T/CL8 on a "Reality" type project with success.  However, I really need a few more analog inputs thus considering the Fusion 12.  I would like to know from Fusion users if these functions are possible and how easy/quickly is it to accomplish.

- Soloing tracks.  I like to very quickly solo individual tracks.  The 788T have hardware toggle switches.  How fast can I solo tracks on the Fusion?

- Input trims.  I do adjust input trims frequently; many times to temporarily mute a channel while recording, sometimes to ride the gain as well.  Can the Fusion temporarily mute a channel while recording?  I know I will be missing those hardware trim pots w/o using a Mix 8.     

- Panning tracks.  On the 788T, I have Mix L feeding Cam A's wireless Hop, and Mix R feeding Cam B.  When Cam A and B splits off, I can quickly Pan/Assign each channel to the respective camera's send using the CL8 on the fly.  How and what steps/shortcuts can this be accomplished on the Fusion?  Do I have to go into the Routing Matrix, then reassign them?  Can I do this on the fly while recording? 

-  Headphone monitoring.  On the 788T, I can scroll through headphone monitoring using the right scroll knob to quickly monitor L+R mix, L mix only, Right Mix only etc.  Is there a shortcut to doing this without going through menus on the Fusion's Touchscreen?

-  Can the Fusion set file size limitation to 2GB and automatically continue recording to a new file when the current file approaches that file size?

-  If I have the pre-record buffer set to say 10 seconds, can I quickly start recording again after I hit stop, even before the 10 second buffer fills up again?  Many a times, cameras cut and then immediately started to roll again.  The 788T handles this nicely.  The PD-6 will need the post-roll time before you record again.  How does the Fusion handle this?

- Arming tracks.  I know this is a long shot, but is it possible to arm and start recording an additional track after recording already started?  This may be a limitation due to the way audio files are written?  Can any recorder even do this?

I really wish SD made a 12 input 788T.  :)  Linking 2 788T is not the answer....double the weight, double the power consumption, double the Cards needed to hand in to post etc. 

Any help on the above questions will be greatly appreciated.

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Since this thread was revived, I would like to have some additional insight concerning 788T and Fusion differences.

I have been using a 788T/CL8 on a "Reality" type project with success.  However, I really need a few more analog inputs thus considering the Fusion 12.  I would like to know from Fusion users if these functions are possible and how easy/quickly is it to accomplish.

- Soloing tracks.  I like to very quickly solo individual tracks.  The 788T have hardware toggle switches.  How fast can I solo tracks on the Fusion?

- Input trims.  I do adjust input trims frequently; many times to temporarily mute a channel while recording, sometimes to ride the gain as well.  Can the Fusion temporarily mute a channel while recording?  I know I will be missing those hardware trim pots w/o using a Mix 8.     

- Panning tracks.  On the 788T, I have Mix L feeding Cam A's wireless Hop, and Mix R feeding Cam B.  When Cam A and B splits off, I can quickly Pan/Assign each channel to the respective camera's send using the CL8 on the fly.  How and what steps/shortcuts can this be accomplished on the Fusion?  Do I have to go into the Routing Matrix, then reassign them?  Can I do this on the fly while recording? 

-  Headphone monitoring.  On the 788T, I can scroll through headphone monitoring using the right scroll knob to quickly monitor L+R mix, L mix only, Right Mix only etc.  Is there a shortcut to doing this without going through menus on the Fusion's Touchscreen?

-  Can the Fusion set file size limitation to 2GB and automatically continue recording to a new file when the current file approaches that file size?

-  If I have the pre-record buffer set to say 10 seconds, can I quickly start recording again after I hit stop, even before the 10 second buffer fills up again?  Many a times, cameras cut and then immediately started to roll again.  The 788T handles this nicely.  The PD-6 will need the post-roll time before you record again.  How does the Fusion handle this?

- Arming tracks.  I know this is a long shot, but is it possible to arm and start recording an additional track after recording already started?  This may be a limitation due to the way audio files are written?  Can any recorder even do this?

I really wish SD made a 12 input 788T.  :)  Linking 2 788T is not the answer....double the weight, double the power consumption, double the Cards needed to hand in to post etc. 

Any help on the above questions will be greatly appreciated.

Zaxcom has some great tutorial videos on their site that will visually show you the answers to some of your questions, but ......

EDIT: I was wrong on the Fusion12 analog input count

Solo: easy. you press and hold that track name on the touchscreen for a few seconds and it goes into solo mode. tap another track to solo it. tap the headphone box to go back to normal.

Trim: dedicated trim button on front panel takes you to a screen of trim adjustment. trims are adjusted via touch screen (unless you have a mix-8 or mix-12 hooked up).

panning: honestly I never tried it while recording, but it would be through the routing menu (one button access to that screen from front of mixer). I usually work in a way that I record isolated tracks pre-fader and then mix based on what my camera is "seeing". In that way I am not panning on the fly. There may be some shortcut that I never heard about.

headphones: there are headphone presets you can access through the dedicated headphone (HPH) button. I usually listen to mix, or solo a track. I have not messed with the headphone presets yet (and I've owned the Fusion for a year). Again, I think my work setup is a little different.

pre-record etc. you can start and stop immediately with the Fusion (like the 788T), and NOT like the PD-6. Been there with the PD-6 and I understand your frustration. The Fusion also allows you to tap record while recording to index your take number  and start a new file(if that applies to what you work on). I find that very useful on film sets, or on docu-reality to break up files when something actually starts to happen.

arming tracks: nope. No recorder can do that. Unless you are really trying to save space, some post people will suggest/request you run the same number of tracks all day to keep things consistent, even if the track is nothing. I only do that if requested, otherwise I arm a track if I see any reason it may be needed during that recording. I use 16 and 32 GB cards, so space is not an issue in terms of making it through the day.

I suggest getting your hands on a Fusion to play with it. It is a different setup than the 788T in terms of how you access the screens, and takes a few minutes to get your head around. It sounds like it has the track count that you need, which is a huge factor. The UI is different, but pretty quick to learn.

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Bringing up these two questions about the Fusion12 for which i wasn't able to find an answer...

thank you in advance..

v

1. Outputs. Is it true that i could assign to the outputs (and/or to the mixdown) only the inputs signal and NOT the tracks (as for example i was able to do with Cantar)?

2. Slate. Is there an option to choose at the moment if i want to record my words trought slate on the take, or simply send it to my boom operator, in example? i know that in the Cantar this thing is possible pressing (to record) or not (it doesn't record) the shift button while the black button is pressed on the crown.

In my opinion, it could be very useful if i want to talk through the talkback during the ciak and at the same time record something on the tracks just after the 'stop', like an identification or something else...

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Johnpaul,

Just to be clear, the PD606 (and fyi DV824) both have updated software functions that after hitting pause at "cut" you can immediately begin recording again within the same file as long as it is in Post Record (emptying the prerecord buffer). If you choose to begin a new file without cutting, hit shift then record again and this initiates a file break and take number increase without dropping a sample.

A little off topic but facts are facts and I'm sure we all want this straight.

I too am very interested in this thread as the perfect recorder has yet to be invented and subtle differences are drastic in on set life!

Eric

(Uses no computer for file management on set and wishes to keep it that way!)

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Renaming files on set and post requirements with current recorders (788, Fusion/Deva, etc) can be very dangerous for the EDL!

I have had several post conversations with post sound and picture editorial regarding filenames. They have all surrounded supporting the original file names from our recorders and the caution of renaming causing missing files. I hope to have some input from those working directly in post specifically surrounding standardizing file name conventions and maintaining them. Mainly, how are Zax users able to hand in segment named files and rely on metadata to convey scene take details?

I see a huge potential for error in not maintaining day/roll folders separating our daysm I also surmize that without scene take info in the filename, how would editorial find alt takes etc without spending time hunting through sound reports paper or digital!?

Slightly more on topic than my previous post though significant as what we deliver, the end result, should have a large factor in what we choose to plunk onto the cart or strap on our bodies!

Eric

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how would editorial find alt takes etc without spending time hunting through sound reports paper or digital!?

Eric

Same way they always have!

While I do name my files on my 788T, I do it just as much for my benefit as I do for anyone else's (catching up with my written report after the fact, or playing something back for myself).

Honestly, I think we are all being generous by providing all this metadata, etc., but it is hardly necessary to the editorial process.  Nothing wrong with numbering files 1 thru whatever on each sound roll and including a written report, therefore nothing wrong with Zaxcom method of file naming.

I may be wrong, but I think an editor is more likely to be upset by errors in sound caused by mental overload due to babysitting metadata, than he/she would be getting PNO-type file names.

Robert

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I'm answering these with the caveat that I only have had the Fusion for a few months, using it strictly out of a "bag" thus far, so I may not have the most comprehensive knowledge of the Fusion/Deva system.  If someone has contradictory info, I appologize in advance, but to the best of my knowledge...

1. Outputs. Is it true that i could assign to the outputs only the inputs signal and NOT the tracks (as for example i can do with cantar)?

I believe this is correct, or at the least, I've not been able to figure out how to make that happen.  When working with "Stereo" Mix Tracks, I think that it would be VERY useful to be able to have "Pan" changes made on that recorded track also affect the Pan for the output tracks (currently, if you wanted to Pan the "stereo" track internally AND externally, you'd have to do it twice).  Perhaps the software could be updated to add a third option to the Output Routing page for "Recorded Tracks" (or something like that) alongside "Analog In" and "Digital In"  Like I said, this is one of those areas I hope someone with better knowledge can show that there's a workaround that I don't know about.

2. Slate. Is there an option to choose at the moment if i want to record my words trought slate, or simply send it to my boom operator, in example? i know that in the cantar this is possible pressing (to record) or not (it doesn't record) the shift button while the black button on the crown.

I spoke with Glenn @ Zaxcom about this a couple months ago, and he said that currently without a Mix-12, the only way to select whether the slate mic will route to the various outputs and/or the Recorded Tracks is to punch into the Routing menus.  This bugged me a bit at first, but the reality is that its very rare that I slate the recorded tracks, except maybe to specify room tone or at the start of a new "reel".  Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a problem to have more permanently set to the Boom's private line.  This would likely be how I'd roll if I were using a Mix-8, and if you are using an external mixer, the issue should be irrelevant.

If you haven't used the routing on a Deva or Fusion before, you really should try them out if you're having doubts, because it is BY FAR the easiest system that exists for routing around these days (IMO), especially versus using the Triple Crown system on the Cantar.  It is probably the thing that I like the most about the Zaxcom interface.

Hope this was helpful,

e.

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I'm answering these with the caveat that I only have had the Fusion for a few months, using it strictly out of a "bag" thus far, so I may not have the most comprehensive knowledge of the Fusion/Deva system.  If someone has contradictory info, I appologize in advance, but to the best of my knowledge...

I believe this is correct, or at the least, I've not been able to figure out how to make that happen.  When working with "Stereo" Mix Tracks, I think that it would be VERY useful to be able to have "Pan" changes made on that recorded track also affect the Pan for the output tracks (currently, if you wanted to Pan the "stereo" track internally AND externally, you'd have to do it twice).  Perhaps the software could be updated to add a third option to the Output Routing page for "Recorded Tracks" (or something like that) alongside "Analog In" and "Digital In"  Like I said, this is one of those areas I hope someone with better knowledge can show that there's a workaround that I don't know about.

1. Outputs. Is it true that i could assign to the outputs only the inputs signal and NOT the tracks (as for example i can do with cantar)?

I'll take a stab at this one, as I've only owned a fusion since December, but to the OP - having the outputs run straight from the inputs and not the disk tracks is not an issue for me.  There is a separate place to specify what tracks play out of what outputs when playing back (in cue mode).

There are a number of even more advanced routing options available.

2. Slate. Is there an option to choose at the moment if i want to record my words trought slate, or simply send it to my boom operator, in example? i know that in the cantar this is possible pressing (to record) or not (it doesn't record) the shift button while the black button on the crown.

Regarding the 2nd question, I have no clue what he's talking about.

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Renaming files on set and post requirements with current recorders (788, Fusion/Deva, etc) can be very dangerous for the EDL!

Eric

with SD recorders one changes not only the meta data when renaming but the filename too. With Zaxcom and Cantar one changes the meta data only but not the unique filename created by the recorder.

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Johnpaul,

Just to be clear, the PD606 (and fyi DV824) both have updated software functions that after hitting pause at "cut" you can immediately begin recording again within the same file as long as it is in Post Record (emptying the prerecord buffer). If you choose to begin a new file without cutting, hit shift then record again and this initiates a file break and take number increase without dropping a sample.

A little off topic but facts are facts and I'm sure we all want this straight.

Glad they improved that with the 606. He mentioned the delay he experienced with the PD-6, and that is a very real delay. I was glad to leave that behind when I moved on to other recorders.

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"Just to make it clear, the Fusion12 had 10 analog inputs. the other 2 tracks are either used for your mix tracks or accessed with digital input."

The Fusion-12 has 12 analog inputs and can record all 12 as isolated tracks if desired.

Glenn

Sorry Glenn,

I was basing it on my Fusion10 having 8 analog inputs. I didn't realize the 12 really had 12 analog inputs. That's interesting.

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1. Outputs. Is it true that i could assign to the outputs only the inputs signal and NOT the tracks (as for example i can do with cantar)?

2. Slate. Is there an option to choose at the moment if i want to record my words trought slate, or simply send it to my boom operator, in example? i know that in the cantar this is possible pressing (to record) or not (it doesn't record) the shift button while the black button on the crown.

3. Sound reports. Is there someone that could post an example of the sound report that fusion generate (i was not able to see it anywhere)?

1) so you are saying, for example, you would want to record inputs 1, 2, 3 and 4 and then just have input 5 go straight to output 3 without going to the recorded track? I am 99.9% sure you can do that. I don't have my Fusion in front of me right now, but I am pretty sure.

2) as answered, I think that requires rerouting it.

3) if you have not seen a sample one yet, send me a DM with your email and I can send you one.

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Perhaps the software could be updated to add a third option to the Output Routing page for "Recorded Tracks" (or something like that) alongside "Analog In" and "Digital In"  Like I said, this is one of those areas I hope someone with better knowledge can show that there's a workaround that I don't know about.

that's exactly what i was talking about and i'd like this option too

I spoke with Glenn @ Zaxcom about this a couple months ago, and he said that currently without a Mix-12, the only way to select whether the slate mic will route to the various outputs and/or the Recorded Tracks is to punch into the Routing menus. This bugged me a bit at first, but the reality is that its very rare that I slate the recorded tracks, except maybe to specify room tone or at the start of a new "reel".  Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a problem to have more permanently set to the Boom's private line.  This would likely be how I'd roll if I were using a Mix-8, and if you are using an external mixer, the issue should be irrelevant.

i slate to recorded tracks every roomtone or wild take description (my fetish). maybe, i could use a free input channel, connect a shure, assign it to the tracks and record it when i need (using the fusion slate only for boomline)...

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I just received my Fusion 12.  I am in the process of setting it up. I'm running into an issue with the output routing, hoping someone can help. The workflow for this gig requires me to send 1 hop to each camera while recording 2 mix tracks and iso tracks. I also need to feed 2 comtek transmitters so the field producers can switch between cam A mix and Cam B mix by switching the comtek receiver's freq.

On the 788T/CL8, I would assign output 1 to Mix L and out 2 to mix R feeding the camera hop transmitters. I would also assign Mix L to out 3 and mix R to out 4 feeding the comtek transmitters.

By assigning each channel to either mix L or Mix R or both allows me to send the proper channel to the proper camera. (they split up covering different scenes spontaneously). Also this would feed the proper Comtek transmitter.

This seem to be a major difficult task on the Fusion. If I wan to reassign a channel to camera A or B in respect also to the proper Comtek send, I would have to do a lot of matrix re-routing. This would be impractical to do on the fly while recording.  Or am I missing something here?  Please help.

Also, I get a snc er 30 message when I try to jam my Denecke TS-C slate.  Both the Fusion and TS-C is set to 29.97ND.  I verified that the TS-C is set to 29.97ND by turning it off, and turn it back on w/o a jam signal.  The boot up sequence show code 29.  When jammed it seems to hold sync for a while.  However, after about 3 hours, I already noticed a couple frames of drift.  I have jammed the TS-C to the 788T, left them on overnight and there's no noticeable drift.  Is the Fusion's clock that far off

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The Fusion has 5 routing memories for instant routing changes. The memories are in the routing menu.

Fusions clock was calibrated to a satellite locked reference before it shipped. As time is relative it could seem off as compaired to other gear. If in fact it is off we would be happy to recalibrate it.

Glenn

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When jammed it seems to hold sync for a while.  However, after about 3 hours, I already noticed a couple frames of drift.  I have jammed the TS-C to the 788T, left them on overnight and there's no noticeable drift.  Is the Fusion's clock that far off

the 788 has a build-in Ambient Lockit, the Fusion does not. To be safe one needs an external Lockit when TC jamming is required.

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