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Reality Show-Question


Nicole Hankerson

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I was asked to work as a Location Sound Mixer for a reality show and they will be providing me with all the equipment. I have a question.

There will be 8 wireless mics running into a mixer and then going recorded into a recorder. My question is do you think its fine to use a standard recorder such as a Zoom H4 or should I have them rent something else. Any thoughts? At this point I can't record to a computer or laptop so it has to be hardware pieces. I don't have a problem with mixing the audio and sending it to the recorder. But my concern is the audio getting all garbled up if one person is talking while the other is talking. Its a reality show so you know how things go. Any suggestions on a better way to organize everything? Help please.

Thanks

Nicole

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I was asked to work as a Location Sound Mixer for a reality show and they will be providing me with all the equipment. I have a question.

There will be 8 wireless mics running into a mixer and then going recorded into a recorder. My question is do you think its fine to use a standard recorder such as a Zoom H4 or should I have them rent something else. Any thoughts? At this point I can't record to a computer or laptop so it has to be hardware pieces. I don't have a problem with mixing the audio and sending it to the recorder. But my concern is the audio getting all garbled up if one person is talking while the other is talking. Its a reality show so you know how things go. Any suggestions on a better way to organize everything? Help please.

Thanks

Nicole

Did the same thing sometime back on a show called "The Family" for ABC-TV. 12 wireless into a console then 12 direct outs into two DA88's locked together with timecode on 1 track. All cameras jammed to the master TC clock in the control room. Getting clean audio feeds from the tx's was solved by having an antenna farm to cover the property. Be prepared to feed any specific audio to the control room speakers for the producers to monitor. Best way would be a 2nd console taking a split of the direct outs of the main console so the producers can do the button pushing themselves. Good Luck.

Eric

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Nicole,

I think you should consider renting a proper portable recorder for your gig:

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/788t.htm

http://www.zaxcom.com/Deva-5.8.htm

Specially if you need to go over the shoulder.

If you don't than you can try a setup like sound board (Yamaha or Mackie for instance), and Metacorder software:

http://www.gallery.co.uk/metacorder/intro.html

Check this out (page 45):

http://www.coffeyinteractive.com/images/The%20Coffey%20Files%20-%20Issue%2003%20-%202009.pdf

It's also very important to attach sync boxes to the cameras (tri level sync depending on the camera) to provide time code accuracy so that editorial can sync the footage to your iso tracks. Good camera mikes can also provide a good scratch track that can be helpful.

If you have a rental budget you should talk to some experts at Coffey/LSC/Trew rental houses about how to do this kind of work so you don't re-invent the wheel. 

Philip Perkins

I second that.

Good luck,

Gabi

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To be honest this is not a HUGE company type project. More independent trying to push to a network. Decided to go with a multitrack recorder. Sync is not an issue as I spoke with the DP and Director they said its fine. I'm getting paid so its a good thing. After research, your posts, and speaking with a few audio experts decided a recorder with 16 channels are better so its all in one. I'm also going to use a backup recorder as well.

Thanks

Nicole

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To be honest this is not a HUGE company type project. More independent trying to push to a network. Decided to go with a multitrack recorder. Sync is not an issue as I spoke with the DP and Director they said its fine. I'm getting paid so its a good thing. After research, your posts, and speaking with a few audio experts decided a recorder with 16 channels are better so its all in one. I'm also going to use a backup recorder as well.

Thanks

Nicole

"Sync is not an issue as I spoke with the DP and Director they said its fine."  What does THAT mean?  OK, remember that phrase....and get ready to repeat it if there turn out to be any sync issues.  The reason for this is that in post sync issues are generally perceived to be a SOUND problem.  I STRONGLY encourage you to take charge of this aspect of your project, do research and tests and preparation now so you aren't blind sided by this later when you are busy shooting the show.  Seriously--that simple phrase should set off alarm bells that dangerous assumptions are being made.

Philip Perkins

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LOL naw what I meant is we have that taken care of. The editor will be there as well and we will be meeting tomorrow to discuss everything. I'm pretty sure its under control. Also for the record so far I have done 5 shows with no audio sync issues and I was never connected to camera. I hate connecting to camera to be honest. I like FREEDOM. I just always recommend slating and I take notes as well.

Thanks

Nicole

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Nicole,

I think that your underestimating the importance of the sync.  For a small one camera film, sync is not that important because an editor can take the time, but for reality TV show, I can't stress how mandatory this is..

The reason is that the editor is going to be syncing up the tracks, not the DP or the director. When you have multiple cameras on multiple actors, all talking in different conversations, its impossible to figure out whats, what without the sync.

This will be a very hard lession to learn, so please take our advice.

-Richard

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LOL naw what I meant is we have that taken care of. The editor will be there as well and we will be meeting tomorrow to discuss everything. I'm pretty sure its under control. Also for the record so far I have done 5 shows with no audio sync issues and I was never connected to camera. I hate connecting to camera to be honest. I like FREEDOM. I just always recommend slating and I take notes as well.

Thanks

Nicole

Hey I like FREEDOM too.  I also like REPEAT BUSINESS, gotten because there were NO PROBLEMS on my jobs.  There is a huge a difference between the syncability of a guide track sent to a camera via wireless and that heard by a camera mic.  If the cameras are not close to the subject the audio waveforms for a given moment will look very different from each other, making sync much harder to do in an edit system.  Consider a wireless feed to the cams.....  If you will be generating a lot of material that needs to be edited quickly then you and your posties should get a system going that everyone can live with and test it.  The DP and director will only be thinking of sync when it slows them down....  Good luck, let us know how you decide to go.

Philip Perkins

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Hey,

I know what you mean. I have already discussed that and brought that to their attention. As mentioned they said its fine so thats something they will have to worry about not me. I know how important sync is trust me but this is my 2nd reality show but this one just has more mics. Also when I did my first reality show it was 4 cameras and I recorded everything to a Edirol R-44 and the editing came out great. Actually have some of it posted on my website. My thing is if I bring it to someones attention and they say its fine or they can handle it my job is done.  Trust I hear yours words and I do understand.

Thanks

Nicole

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Nicole,

I just want to second all comments on sync. Reality shows make up a very large chunk of my year. Today I'm Day 17 (of 130). There is 6 cameras and a crane, 5 recordists, 20 contestants and th host. We will record around 10 to 12 camera tapes per camera and five 16gB CF cards. Our sound assist takes care of the notes and track naming in Wave Agent; as well as data backups.

Perhaps your show won't be on this scale but it's worth trying to imagine what a mess it would be without proper sync. Lockit boxes and ok'd school slating is a must.

My philosophy is to try and anticipate as many problems as I can before the shoot starts.

If you want to ask any detailed questions please do.

ChrisB

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" My thing is if I bring it to someones attention and they say its fine or they can handle it my job is done.   "

did I mention: 'get it in writing!' ??

trust me "

heard that before...

and your vast experience is a previous show, done alone, on semi-pro equipment??

" you and your posties should get a system going that everyone can live with and test it.  "

reminder: you asked

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Nicole

Using three 788s and two/three 744s. I send dailies out on CF cards and backup locally.

The sound assist manages track naming and reports.

Great system because you are mobile and not tied to base camp.

ChrisB

Can you go into some detail about your file management system (3 788 and WA etc)?  It sounds like you guys are working w/o a central mixing/recording setup--ie all bags on their own.  Do all the 788s have all the characters' tracks named?  How do your notes get incorporated into the WA report?  Does post load up all the tracks for the picture cut, or just mixdowns and then conform later (if needed)?

thanks

Philip Perkins

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Hi Philip

Yes we are all recording in the bag, though with a 788 and seven 411a receivers, IFB and all the rest "in the bag" really now equals a mini cart rig.  On set pieces we are camped on magliners with high gain antennas. Not really practical to try and "run" with all that, even without the boom pole.

This system gives us the freedom to follow the action if we need too.

As for house keeping, we write paper notes on the run and the assist adjusts the track names and scenes details as necessary.

Had an unusual CF card error yesterday. 16gB card formatted in the 744. Stopped recording with about 10hrs space left. When I pressed record I got a FULL CF indicator. When the assist put the card in computer card reader it crashed the machine.

Any thoughts on what was going on there? Bad sectors on the CmF card?

Determined to enjoy the weekend

chrisB

ChrisB

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