Toy Robot Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just found this post after finishing two days of 15 & 16 hours back to back. Woke up with 6 hours of sleep and on to the next gig. I made decent OT, but you know, I think many of you are right: This is blood money. Just my opinion, but I am definitely not okay with these types of hours. The rest of my life is starting to suffer from me literally not being around for it, and I'm not yet 30. I don't want to wake up in ten years and wonder where they went. This post is old, too, and I'm wondering what ever became of this petition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 When 695 sent a request for ideas for the upcoming negotiations, I suggested reinstatement of proper "forced call" penalties and to disallow any side-letter which gives 14 hours of work before double-time. The contract I am on now is 14 hours before double time, but in addition the DP and operators only have 10 hours turnaround, the actors are on a buyout from AFTRA, so are not paid for forced calls, and crew forced calls are only paid for the time forced. So hair/make-up might be forced, but we usually go out at 1.5 time, so they might make an extra $20 to be forced an hour. No real penalty to production. Fortunately we usually work less than 12 hours and general crew call is between 11-12 hours turnaround, sometimes more. But our show is rare. It ought to be an easy sell in this round of negotiations to concentrate on health and safety issues. If we are expected to pay more for health care and take safety classes, production should be willing to improve conditions. It would not cost more if they planned properly, and it would encourage safer and healthier conditions. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just found this post after finishing two days of 15 & 16 hours back to back. Woke up with 6 hours of sleep and on to the next gig. I made decent OT, but you know, I think many of you are right: This is blood money. Just my opinion, but I am definitely not okay with these types of hours. The rest of my life is starting to suffer from me literally not being around for it, and I'm not yet 30. I don't want to wake up in ten years and wonder where they went. This post is old, too, and I'm wondering what ever became of this petition? Yeah, Try that crap at 50, or 60.... Not yet 30?..... It's not so much the loss of "life" or "time", sh-t I'd be sleeping... but the difficulty in doing it day after day... It really gets hard.... think of how you younger guys feel, how tired and worn out you are, now tack on 20 or 30 years..... It gets hard..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Capulli Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) rates are too low and double time after 14 is a joke. I worked 6 months as a third on a Fox show and I made 28 bucks an hour! We are highly skilled technicians and I think even thirds should be making 40/hr and a Mixers should be way more. I think when people say they WANT the hours because of all the overtime - if we made twice as much rate in a day we wouldn't be saying this. Edited January 16, 2012 by Michael Capulli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Many of the "features" I worked early on required 16-hr days, and often 6-day weeks (these were non-union gigs, of course) and the "overtime" pay was nowhere near what we now get on union gigs. I was young, and just happy to be working -- and admittedly still quite enamored with the whole lifestyle -- we'd often go out for drinks after wrap, resulting in maybe 4 or 5 hours of sleep each night. We LOVED it! The "I'll sleep when I'm dead" attitude was infectious, and no one seemed to mind. CUT TO: 20 years later... Last month, I worked on 2 different (non-union ) productions for the same company over 3 days... in 3 days, I worked 45 hours -- pack-mule style, running and gunning all over Western Washington. After the first day, I actually wound up staying the night at the first location (the subject family was gracious enough to offer) and was able to avoid 2 hours of driving -- thankful for that. I'm pretty sure the field-producer would have just kept shooting all night had I not finally just said, "dude, I'm done" By the third day, I was already fatigued to the point of a massive headache and some pretty intense shoulder pain that increased throughout the day to the point where I couldn't even feel the (by this time) probably 1600mg of ibuprofen having any affect on me whatsoever (except for the possible liver damage.) I'm not satisfied with this type of work by any means, but I did what I had to do to get a paycheck -- in the absence of a better job with better hours, better conditions, etc. I've yet to be paid -- just passed the NET-30 mark, and they're getting a call today -- and the $ will go toward trying to keep my family's heads above water for yet another month. I hate to admit it, but I actually hope they call me back. At least they're working. Things have been really rough for realistically the last year, and I'm hoping 2012 will be more like 2009 and 2010 for me -- both quite lucrative, but in the absence of having the choice between what jobs I can afford to take or turn down, I'm kind of stuck with what I can get. I know there are more people in this position than not. PRODUCERS KNOW THIS -- and use it to their advantage -- including how they deal with the unions (who supposedly create policy on our behalf.) I don't think there's an easy answer. We all want to work -- but not to death -- and we all want a living wage with reasonable hours and health benefits, etc... but the world is changing, and we (as a country, as an industry, as a group of technicians within that industry) don't have the power we once had. The environment is getting increasingly competitive (in part, due to the very technology we so often praise -- and the increasing availability thereof) and at some point we're going to have to face the fact that the motion picture industry is just like any other industry -- and it's become insanely competitive. The nature of power (whether it's a Production Company, Union, etc.) is self-preservation -- they only care about you because your membership means more $ for their organization. The real power in our current culture is in R&D. It hasn't been in manufacturing for decades, and the power in our service-based economy is waining as well. If you have kids, and want them to avoid having to work 16-hr days, they should learn Chinese, and they should go into research and development. The film industry is no exception. It's not gonna get any easier. Save your hard-earned $, and invest wisely. If it is good right now, that doesn't mean it will stay that way. If it's not good right now, be open to the very high likelihood that it might just stay that way. Above all, keep in mind that while the squeaky wheel often gets the grease, it just as often gets replaced. I hope my (and others') situation improves, but I'm still thankful for every job I get, and know it could quite possibly be my last -- that influences how I interact with those around me, whether they're PA's, Actors, DP's, AC's, Grips, Union Reps., even Producers. Anyhow, I'll shut up now... need to make some calls (sigh)... ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 This is a huge topic for me... ...I worked those horrible hours for many years. My belief as I got older was that it was blood money. We make a deal with the devil to give us money for trading entire years of our life... ...I grew up with a Dad who was never there because he loved his family so much, he worked all the time to provide good stuff. In retrospect, I would much rather we were poor if it gave me more time with my Dad. John Coffey Damn, This cuts to my core. I had a pretty idyllic upbringing... Dad worked for Lockheed at their R&D site at Rye Canyon, had some overtime, but was around more often than not -- I still remember feeling a bit slighted as a kid when he had to work overtime. Every time I go away for a job, I know it's a double-edged sword. We're wired to be providers, and the pressure to maintain a standard of living, as ambiguous a term as that might be, is overwhelming for many of us. You can't enjoy time with your family if you're constantly worrying about how you'll be able to pay the mortgage, provide food and clothing, education, basic health and dental care... nor can you enjoy time with your family if your constantly working, whether it's within 30 miles of your home, or 3000 miles away. The happy medium might just be an illusion. For those of us who are fortunate enough to live within that range, we should definitely count our blessings, and perhaps do whatever we can to enlighten others on both sides of the equation as to how this can be achieved and maintained. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 You all have very good points, and thank you for your excellent posts. I agree with you that I'm in fact very grateful for what work I am able to get. Really grateful, in fact, since I've had the months with almost no work whatsoever. However, I'll say that does not negate my feelings toward the hours. I love the work. Seriously guys & gals, I never posted to a project manager's forum when I was working at the IT firm. And I'll be the first to say I am very lucky to work in a city that provides me with regular work, even in winter time. But what's the end result? Will my soon to be finance remember that I did Movie X and Commercial Y when I'm dead and gone? Or will she remember that we went snowboarding in Vermont for a weekend, or on a trip to Germany, etc? There must be a balance somewhere (@~tt) and I am determined to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 " It would not cost more if they planned properly, and it would encourage safer and healthier conditions. " this is not new... back when we were beginning to think "Brent's Rule", this came up in pre-negotiations discussions, especially as the producers wanted ideas on how to reduce the costs of making movies and the producers response to this sort of negotiation is "Don't tell us how to make movies". It is a non-started, and of course most of the other IATSE crafts, and the Teamsters all like worship OT... " if we made twice as much rate in a day we wouldn't be saying this. " and I believe you are incorrect, sir. " I've yet to be paid -- just passed the NET-30 mark, " your labor, and thus your OT should have been on payroll, and would have been paid promptly. and, yes, I realize that is another, different discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 " I've yet to be paid -- just passed the NET-30 mark, " your labor, and thus your OT should have been on payroll, and would have been paid promptly. and, yes, I realize that is another, different discussion... Thanks Senator, I agree -- believe me, I understand the importance of logging hours, going through payroll, NOT 1099'ing myself into a tax hole... like I mentioned -- in the absence of 'best case scenario' work, we often have to take the less desirable jobs just to make ends meet -- fecal matter occurs, right? ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 " I've yet to be paid -- just passed the NET-30 mark, " That is not bad for invoice items these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Capulli Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Senator is right about the OT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Thanks Senator (and Michael), I know, believe me - I would much prefer union work - for many reasons... I guess my point was that as things become increasingly competitive, we're often forced to take less than desirable jobs in order to make ends meet -- and the current employment conditions in our industry serve to strengthen the positions of those doing the hiring -- even at the union job level -- including how negotiations go between producers and unions. I just think it will be an uphill climb to get any kind of real consideration regarding changing policy on long work hours. As many have already stated, the unions have a history of making deals that tend to weaken our position as workers -- I think safety is one key area wherein we might still have some real power to affect change, and tackling the issue of long work hours from a safety standpoint will probably garnish the best possible results. My (rantings) about the recent jobs I did were really only to meant to drive home the idea that many of us (including union members in good standing) often have to compromise our ideals simply because the reality our situation takes precedent. I'm pretty sure the job I did, including the overtime, wound up costing the client as much (if not more) than had they simply scheduled another day. Trying to get them to realize this is a can of worms. On union jobs, there might be a little more power, and for that, I am thankful to be a member, and will always seek union work over non-union work. On a consolatory note, I do have an overtime rate in my contract with the aforementioned non- signatory client for whom I recently worked, and I will be compensated for those hours accordingly, though I wasn't able to log hours, didn't get any benefits paid in, and am still treading some pretty hostile waters financially speaking, so guess what -- I'll likely have to take another similar job in the near future to keep things from imploding. Not ideal by any means, but I'm still thankful for the work, and glad I'm making more than $.31/hr like some people on the planet. Anyhow, here's to strength in numbers, and better living/working conditions for everyone... ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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