How do you mount your Fusion/Deva on a cart?

[johnpaul215]

besides the obvious choices of velcro, gravity or attitude.... does anyone have a clever mounting solution?

I don't own one yet, but am looking at taking the plunge soon.

I was able to make a simple quick release mount for my PD-6 taking advantage of the rubber feet on the back and the strap hooks on the front. It took no time to pop it off for safer transportation, or to pop it in a bag for car insert work.

p.s. my PD-6 is up for sale at GothamSound.com under the used gear / recorders section.

[Jeff Wexler]

I looked into a bracket that Chindha made for the Deva and it was really beautifully designed but overkill for my needs. So, I devised a bracket myself for the Deva 5.8 case (which is different than the older Deva 4, IV and I'm not sure what the case on the Fusion is like). The bracket is a simple piece of 3/4" wide aluminum (1/8" thick) bar stock cut 1/2" longer on both ends to the width of the Deva. With proper holes drilled, this bracket mounts to the Deva first, replacing the lower screws that hold the handle attachment point with longer screws. Once mounted to the Deva, this aluminum bar is mounted however you with to your cart shelf. With mine, it is 2 simple screws secured on the other end with knurled cinch knobs for quick release. This works very well but with the obvious downside that the bracket is attached to the Deva and could be cumbersome when the Deva is placed in a bag, or not, depending on the bag, etc.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Glen Trew]

The most elegant (actually invisible), versatile, and secure mounting system is also the least damaging to the recorder and the least expensive: Velcro, which I currently use to secure a Deva 16 to a shelf on my cart.

I also use Velcro to secure my mixers, which have alternated between a Sonosax SX-ST, and Cooper 106, and Cameo, as well as a Lectro Venue receiver system. The same Velcro on my cart can be used to hold the Deva, Sound Devices, and all the Fostex recorders, without reconfiguring. That's pretty versatile.

Secure enough? If someone was strong enough to lift my cart, turn it upside down and shake it, none of the Velcro mounted equipment would budge, and none of it ever has. That's secure enough. Also, none of the equipment has any rub marks or scratches from the mounting apparatus. Yet in a matter of seconds I can remove and reattach any of these pieces, without tools. What more could someone ask for?

GT

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

Glen,

Ditto on the Velcro, works for me. But I do like Jeff's system as well.

RL

[old school]

I am a velcro guy, but a little goes a long way. The first time I velcro'd my Cooper to my cart made it almost impossible to remove as I found out trying to load onto a Shotmaker. Love the stuff.

CrewC

[Brian Milliken]

Velco here too... 2 Inch strips, front and back, and to remove the Deva I use a wooden wedge, primitive but effective.

Brian

[Jeff Wexler]

Velco here too... 2 Inch strips, front and back, and to remove the Deva I use a wooden wedge, primitive but effective.

Brian

Brian and Crew both mention the thing that has troubled me about Velcro --- I know that it is very effective as a mounting scheme that will hold the equipment very securely (Glen Trew's testimonial) but I have always had a problem REMOVING the equipment from its shelf. Using a wedge or some tool is a good idea, I never really tried that, but the other thing that seems to happen is that the Velcro detaches itself from either the gear or the shelf, or both. I may give it a try again --- certainly easier than fabricating brackets, etc.

-  Jeff Wexler

[Izen Ears]

  So to the velcro users and also Mr. Wexler: what about vibration protection?  I know the Velcro being there adds some vibration protection, but is it enough?  Does the Deva even need that?  It seems scary for me to have it against the metal of the cart.

  I thrown a very inelegant layer of foam under the Deva and then use mini bungees and it's worked fine so far.

  I also feel that with 2" strips of Velcro I have to strain so hard to get the gear off it's got to be bad for it!  I love Farr's hotel key method, as long as the angle is right to get it down there.

  I heard that Canadian's torch their Velcro before applying it with a lighter!  Then, when the adhesive starts melting, they slap it on the gear and it NEVER comes off, ever.  Wacky Canadians!

  Dan Izen

[Jeff Wexler]

  So to the velcro users and also Mr. Wexler: what about vibration protection?  I know the Velcro being there adds some vibration protection, but is it enough?  Does the Deva even need that?  It seems scary for me to have it against the metal of the cart.

  Dan Izen

The setting the Velcro on fire, Canadian-style, scares me! As for vibration, most all of the carts I have built I have used perforated aluminum sheet for the shelf material and this has provided hundreds of easy mounting holes, obviously, and also a good deal of beneficial "flex" that has seemed to give some shock and vibration protection to the equipment mounted to it. The Chinhda design uses perforated aluminum also and goes one step further by actually shockmounting the shelves to the frame of the cart. I have not seen the need for this so I never incorporated that into my carts. Those people who have built carts that are based on shockmount rack cases (SKB and others) provide for vibration protection by having the total contents of the case/cart shockmounted.

[Glen Trew]

Brian and Crew both mention the thing that has troubled me about Velcro --- I know that it is very effective as a mounting scheme that will hold the equipment very securely (Glen Trew's testimonial) but I have always had a problem REMOVING the equipment from its shelf. Using a wedge or some tool is a good idea, I never really tried that, but the other thing that seems to happen is that the Velcro detaches itself from either the gear or the shelf, or both. I may give it a try again --- certainly easier than fabricating brackets, etc.

-  Jeff Wexler

If trying to remove the equipment by lifting it straight up, it's not going to happen (which is why it is so secure). You have to start lifting at edge. A dolly track wedge is an ideal tool to start the separation.

I've tried the Velcro "industial stength" 2-inch variety. The "industrial strength" mostly refers to the sticky back adhesive, not so much the hook-and-loop part. Keep in mind that the Velcro adhesive is activated with pressure, and the bond requires time to cure (I understand that it takes 24 hours to reach full strength). If you get the surface reasonably clean, and press the Velcro hard into the surface, then wait a while (a few hours, preferably) before pulling on it, you probably won't have to thing about it again for years.

Here is another tip: Be careful to not use more Velco than needed. I've found that the 1-inch stuff has always been enough, and the 2-inch is often more than needed, making it unnecessarily difficult to remove the equipment. Sometimes I'll use 1-inch on one side and 2-inch on the other side. This way, there is only 1-inch of contact even though the 2-inch side allows a little slop in alignment.

gt

[DHolmes]

hey guys, one trick i use for removing equipment from velcro is an 8" plastic putty knife. it has a handle and doesn't scratch the gear. push forward and no strain on the casing.

[Kevin Sorensen]

I'm really feeling it needs more cow bell here.

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

I think we should give pause and salute the inventor of Velcro: George de Mestral

The hook-and-loop fastener was invented in 1941 by Swiss engineer, George de Mestral who lived in Commugny, Switzerland. The idea came to him one day after returning from a hunting trip with his dog in the Alps. He took a close look at the burrs (seeds) of burdock that kept sticking to his clothes and his dog's fur. He examined them under a microscope, and noted their hundreds of "hooks" that caught on anything with a loop, such as clothing, animal fur, or hair. He saw the possibility of binding two materials reversibly in a simple fashion, if he could figure out how to duplicate the hooks and loops.

Originally people refused to take him, and the idea, seriously when he took his idea to Lyon, which was then a center of weaving. He did manage to gain the help of one weaver, who made two cotton strips that worked. However the cotton wore out quickly, so de Mestral turned to synthetic fibers. He settled on nylon as being the best synthetic, which had several advantages. Nylon doesn’t break down, rot, or attract mold, and it could be produced in threads of various thickness. Nylon had only recently been invented, and through trial and error he eventually discovered that, when sewn under hot infrared light, nylon forms hooks that were perfect for the hook side of the fastener. Though he had figured out how to make the hooks, he had yet to figure out a way to mechanize the process, and to make the looped side. Next he found that nylon thread, when woven in loops and heat-treated, retains its shape and is resilient; however, the loops had to be cut in just the right spot so that they could be fastened and unfastened many times. On the verge of giving up, a new idea came to him. He bought a pair of shears and trimmed the tops off the loops, thus creating hooks that would match up perfectly with the loops in the pile.

George de Mestral named his invention "Velcro", which is a portmanteau of the two French words velours and crochet, or 'hook'. The term Velcro is a registered trademark in most countries. Generic terminology for these fasteners includes "hook and loop", "burr" and "touch" fasteners. However the Velcro brand is an example of a genericized trademark as its brand name has become the generic term. The Velcro company headquarters is in Manchester, New Hampshire, USA.

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velcro

RL

[Jeff Wexler]

You beat me to it, Richard, but you confirmed that our interests in these things are quite similar --- I was just researching the invention of Velcro when I read your post. What I knew already was that it was a Swiss invention, although I originally thought it was France, and that it was early 1940's. My mother was fascinated with Velcro, as was I, when it first showed up at our house probably in the late 1940's (I was born in 1947 but I have a very good memory). I loved just playing with it and if I remember correctly, I also really got a kick our of the SOUND of Velcro!

In any case, enough of that...  thank you for posting the history of Velcro

[Bash]

Fascinating stuff indeed. I have always, jokingly, referred to the different 'sexes' of Velcro as 'Vel' and 'Cro'. Now I realise that in fact this is precisely the case, where the Cro(chet) is the hooks.

Kindest regards,

Simon B

You beat me to it, Richard, but you confirmed that our interests in these things are quite similar --- I was just researching the invention of Velcro when I read your post. What I knew already was that it was a Swiss invention, although I originally thought it was France, and that it was early 1940's. My mother was fascinated with Velcro, as was I, when it first showed up at our house probably in the late 1940's (I was born in 1947 but I have a very good memory). I loved just playing with it and if I remember correctly, I also really got a kick our of the SOUND of Velcro!

In any case, enough of that...  thank you for posting the history of Velcro

[johnpaul215]

Thanks for the replies. Velcro seems like a very valid solution. Can't hurt to have some on the unit if it is in a bag either.

[Marc Wielage]

I'm also in the Velcro camp on my Deva 5.8. The real problem with securing the Deva is the D-Sub 25-pin connector on the right side. You can't flex this even 1/8" -- it's gotta be absolutely nailed down securely or disaster will strike. I have several cable harnesses for power, the D9 connector (for the Mix12), and the D-sub for outputs, all screwed down to the shelf on which the Deva lives. This is just a Mid-Atlantic SS lockable slide-out shelf. I may change this to a non-slide-out shelf, but I wanted to make sure I could swap out inputs whenever necessary.

I really wish Zaxcom had just used a bunch of TA3's (ala SD's 788) for these outputs instead, because those connectors are absolutely rock-solid. The DB25-subs are really delicate, and god help you if those are ever flexed or bent.

My eventual plan is to go to an XLR patch bay on the back of my cart (SKB rack case put together by the great Brett Grant-Grierson). But I have more wiring and testing to do before I can use it on a project. The temporary wiring is working OK for now. "Cable management" (as we euphemistically call it in post) is a real art, and getting all the wiring to lay neat and flat on the side walls of the cart takes real talent and expertise far beyond my simple ape-like brain.

--Marc W.

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

Marc,

I've posted these before, but Aviom makes interesting XLR patch bays.

http://www.aviom.com/Product-Categories-6/Accessories-32/PB28-Modular-Patch-Bay

RL

[johnpaul215]

hrmmmm if the D-Sub 25 is that fragile, how do you use the Fusion/Deva in a bag? I know there is the camera feed 10-pin output, but what if you need more than that? Offhand feeding a camera as well as IFB and maybe some other specific outs.

[Marc Wielage]

Those look terrific, Richard. I already went ahead and hand-wired about 24 panel-mount XLRs the "old-fashioned" way, which was cheaper than the Aviom route, but far more trouble. I'm getting some post wiring guys to build wiring harnesses and help solve the cable routing issues inside the cart, just to eliminate any stress. Ideally, all the "gozintas" would be on the back, so it'd be fairly easy to repatch inputs and outputs if the situation warrented it.

The Deva would be more-or-less permanently wired on the shelf, and would only have to move for shipping. The real question is how this will survive the torture test of real day-in/day-out work. In a pinch, I could always wire everything manually and just bypass the patchbays, so it's not a life-threatening issue.

if the D-Sub 25 is that fragile' date=' how do you use the Fusion/Deva in a bag? I know there is the camera feed 10-pin output, but what if you need more than that?[/quote']

Great question! I see no solution to this if you need more than a couple of outputs from the 10-pin Hirose connector. The only solution I could come up with was to use the 744t for bag situations, which is not realistic if you have only the Deva/Fusion. But I'd never in my wildest nightmares try to shove the Deva and the attached D-sub 25-pin cable in a bag (or anywhere else). Same with a mixer, and I dealt with that for years with my old Pro Tools setup. My feeling is the D-sub connectors are realistically intended for permanent installations, not screwed in every day. The connectors aren't easily going to hold up to a lot of stress over time.

--Marc W.

[Paul Graff]

hrmmmm if the D-Sub 25 is that fragile, how do you use the Fusion/Deva in a bag? I know there is the camera feed 10-pin output, but what if you need more than that? Offhand feeding a camera as well as IFB and maybe some other specific outs.

I don't seem to have the issues that Marc has with this.  My Fusion has pretty much lived in the bag for a year-and-a-half with the D-sub always in play.  Trew Audio made a couple of D-sub output cables with this 45 degree connector and with the Portabrace AO-1 bag it is totally protected.  Shrink wrap has slipped a bit in this picture, but you get the idea. 

I keep the weight and bulk down by having cables break out to TA3 instead of XLR.  One cable breaks out to mini plug on 4 for Comtek feed and 5 and 6 on TA5 directly to TRX900AA.  Other outputs go to TA3 and I have short TA3 to XLR cables for when I need them.  With Fusion 12 now these are the only outputs (8 instead of 6) as the Hirose is now for inputs 9-12.  The angled D-sub and the right bag makes all the difference, imo.

PG

[johnpaul215]

Thanks Paul... that's good to know that a DB-25 can be secure. I figured I would have at least two DB-25 breakout cables. one attached to my cart and one for bag work (be it inserts or docs). I don't own a 744T, my smaller recorder is a FR-2, though I see the appeal of having something like a 744T for those instances.

I'm not getting my Fusion for another month or so and have been on the fence a bit about the 10 or 12. Losing the 10-pin output was a concern about going for the Fusion 12.

[Marc Wielage]

Ah, a 45-degree connector would definitely be a help. Still, the DB-25 is a delicate connector, nowhere near as hardy as a TA3 or an XLR. That's my worry there. At least you've got the knurled knobs, rather than the screw-ons used on the standard cable.

But if Paul says it works, I believe him. I'll have to investigate finding a 45-degree connector, and see if that would help with the breakout problem. If I could find a 90-degree connector that went straight back behind the Deva, that would also be an ideal cart solution. Going straight out to the right is the issue.

--Marc W.

[Paul Graff]

Yeah, I was worried about it but with this setup it's really well protected.  The bag is actually the A0-4, not A0-1 like I mentioned above.  That little raised part on the right toward the body works to prevent the Fusion from being able to slide right, so the D-sub never gets any pressure put on it.

As far as the Fusion 12, for me the appeal was at least as much for the additional 2 outputs as for the the extra inputs.  It's a bummer to not be able to use the beta snakes I own, but now I get that stereo return I lacked before; even if it takes a 4-way snake to get it.

PG

[Guest Ken Mantlo]

Can't you open up the connector and replace the screws with knurled type ones?