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Question for Motu Traveler Users


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I've been reading thru old posts seeing if I can find some answers about using the Motu Traveler for a computer based rig - and after maybe an hour, my eyes have glazed over and my head is hurting, so I thought I'd just throw a couple of small questions out there.

My understanding with the Traveler is that the first 4 inputs are mic level only and the last 4 inputs are line level only.  I would probably not be interested in using the mic pres generally (rather line level from a SD mm-1 or mix pre) for booms.  When it comes to signals from wireless receivers - would it be advisable to use the line inputs only?  With the pad on the 4 mic inputs, could you bring the output from a 411 down and be happy with the range and headroom?

That said, does anyone know of a DC powered box that does 8 line inputs to ADAT lightpipe?  (if it does switchable line and mic, that'd be a bonus)

After talking with Graham about his rig and the software that comes with the Metric Halo gear, I'm also considering a ULN-2, and then trying to find an additional 8 ins to lightpipe - but I'm also trying to get the best bang for my buck here, so the Traveler seems more compelling right now.

Thanks for any help

-Greg-

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I've been reading thru old posts seeing if I can find some answers about using the Motu Traveler for a computer based rig - and after maybe an hour, my eyes have glazed over and my head is hurting, so I thought I'd just throw a couple of small questions out there.

My understanding with the Traveler is that the first 4 inputs are mic level only and the last 4 inputs are line level only.  I would probably not be interested in using the mic pres generally (rather line level from a SD mm-1 or mix pre) for booms.  When it comes to signals from wireless receivers - would it be advisable to use the line inputs only?  With the pad on the 4 mic inputs, could you bring the output from a 411 down and be happy with the range and headroom?

That said, does anyone know of a DC powered box that does 8 line inputs to ADAT lightpipe?  (if it does switchable line and mic, that'd be a bonus)

After talking with Graham about his rig and the software that comes with the Metric Halo gear, I'm also considering a ULN-2, and then trying to find an additional 8 ins to lightpipe - but I'm also trying to get the best bang for my buck here, so the Traveler seems more compelling right now.

Thanks for any help

-Greg-

\

I use Travelers all the time on two different rigs.  The first 4 inputs of the Traveler have mic pres (that are perfectly good in my opinion, MANY live music CDs videos and other jobs down the line now).  Those inputs have front mounted hardware trim controls, and an additional -20 pad available in the software of the box.  Inputs 5-8 are line level only, with a -10/+4 switch and an additional level boost also available in software.  The real key to getting everything you can out of a Traveler is to use MOTU's CUEMIX app to control it (which is free).  With that the Traveler becomes a very powerful box--you can have 4 separate mixes going at once, it has provision for a slate mic circuit, a scribble strip for naming channels etc. etc.. MOTU also has a free app called SMPTE Console for the Traveler that makes it much easier to setup and run its internal TC generator (you can check these apps out on MOTU's site).  The Traveler can manage 20 inputs at once (8 analog, 8 ADAT, 2 SPDIF 2 AES) and send the output of Mix #1 (of 4) via firewire to many apps (Boom Recorder, Metacorder, Audio Desk etc).  I have recorded in this 22 track config MANY times with success, even on older laptops and FW 400 drives. You CAN access all the functions of a Traveler via its front panel, but there are many nested menus and multifunction controls which I found very confusing--just use the software.

My regular film/video sound cart is built around a highly modified PSC M6 mixer.  One of the mods mine has is direct outs, prefade post trim.  These outs go to the Traveler.  I found that the direct out levels were a touch hot for the Traveler @ line level settings, so I built -10 pads into the lines between the mixer and the Traveler.  The Traveler also gets the 2 mix from the mixer.  The M6 has Aux sends, but they are post fader--but with the Traveler hooked up and under computer control I can use the 4 mixers in the Traveler as my prefade sends, among many other uses.  The isos usually get recorded in Metacorder.  For your use you very well may find that the Traveler inputs are too hot, but it was very simple to build some H-pads into the lines feeding it.  Re a 411, you could avoid those pads since the 411 has an output level control of its own--you can make it whatever level you want.  Even in recording percussion etc with mics feeding the Traveler inputs directly, once I have found good working levels the headroom was fine. 

Philip Perkins

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One thing to note if you decide to go with MOTU is that their hardware does not come with a manual. You have to purchase it separately from the manufacturer. I'm in need of a new computer interface as well. I was looking at the Ultralite-mkIII the other day. It's a bummer that it doesn't have ADAT I/O, then my decision would be a no-brainer. I really want an interface that will fit into my backpack, and the Travler is just a tad too big. The SMPTE Console software works with the Ultralite as well. It's nice that it can generate TC, regenerate, or slave other devices. It works as a stand-alone, and has both FireWire and USB 2.0 connectivity.

For my needs, the RME Fireface UC is still at the top of the list.

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One thing to note if you decide to go with MOTU is that their hardware does not come with a manual. You have to purchase it separately from the manufacturer. I'm in need of a new computer interface as well. I was looking at the Ultralite-mkIII the other day. It's a bummer that it doesn't have ADAT I/O, then my decision would be a no-brainer. I really want an interface that will fit into my backpack, and the Travler is just a tad too big. The SMPTE Console software works with the Ultralite as well. It's nice that it can generate TC, regenerate, or slave other devices. It works as a stand-alone, and has both FireWire and USB 2.0 connectivity.

For my needs, the RME Fireface UC is still at the top of the list.

My Traveler and 8Pre both came with manuals.

Philip Perkins

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For my needs, the RME Fireface UC is still at the top of the list.

I was talking with Graham about this.  Apparently the software for the RME stuff isn't that great.  Motu CueMix seems really good for what I want to do (live eqing and maybe some light compression/limiting) in terms of mixes for camera sends/etc with the ability to route unprocessed iso tracks to something like boom recorder...The software for the Metric Halo gear looks even better.

That said, my only other major requirement is the ability to do DC power.  The RME UC looks like it does DC whereas some of their other gear doesn't.

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I don't know what the MH boxes require re DC, but for cart use you need to factor in that the Traveler needs 700mA--a pretty good bite of 12v.  In order to have a bus-powered FW drive connected to the Traveler work on DC you may find you need to power the Traveler separately, not on bus power from the computer.  This is what I found, anyhow.

I don't recommend that you do an "active mix" for a master recording on the Traveler's mixers--a few tweaks are ok, but a big fader move with audio running through the channel can produce zipper noise.  I've been told that MH boxes do not do this.  It may also be that the later MOTU boxes (Traveler 3, Ultra etc) have fixed this problem.  I generally use the Traveler mixers for monitor and scratch mixes only.

Philip Perkins

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I don't recommend that you do an "active mix" for a master recording on the Traveler's mixers--a few tweaks are ok, but a big fader move with audio running through the channel can produce zipper noise.  

Philip Perkins

Phil,

Are you talking about in the CueMix software?  Or on the knobs on the front of the box?

I'm hoping to use a midi controller like a behringer or a euphonix.

-Greg-

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Phil,

Are you talking about in the CueMix software?  Or on the knobs on the front of the box?

I'm hoping to use a midi controller like a behringer or a euphonix.

-Greg-

The knobs on the front are TRIMS only, and don't move the onscreen faders in CueMix.  (They move the

onscreen trim knobs.)  The mixes CueMix can make with the Traveler's mixers are made with the onscreen faders.  It is these faders that I've had zipper noise with in the Traveler Mk2.  A friend tried to build a cart system using a Yamaha 01x as a fader controller w/ a Traveler mk2 and he had zip noise too (and some latency).  You might want to try this w/ a Traveler Mk3 or Ultralight and/or ask MOTU about this, but with a Mk2 box I would try it out with audio running through the mixer and see if you can live with the artifacts.  As I said, I've never heard a problem recording concert audio and making tweaks, but haven't tried the sort of very active mix you might do for dramatic dialog.  I do know that some folks have used a Behringer fader box and MH for dialog mixing and they were happy with it.  I briefly had a Behringer fader box for use in the studio....and sent it back.  Pretty cheesey, and the faders "fought" me all the time.

Philip Perkins

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Yeah,

I too tried the behringer for post work and returned it after a few days.  I am planning a call to Euphonix to see if they think a MC Mix will handle some outdoor ruffing...

Crap, I was hoping that the cuemix was a sure bet - looks like I'll have to do some tests at the local rental house.

Again, thanks for the input.

-Greg-

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I was talking with Graham about this.  Apparently the software for the RME stuff isn't that great. 

Can you elaborate on some of the negative aspects of RME's TotalMix? I've used it a little, but didn't get too deep into it. RME on the whole is more Windows friendly, and I did notice that TotalMix would launch itself on my Mac and the GUI would open and be larger than the screen on my computer. That was annoying. What else is not good?

That zipper issue sounds like a pretty glaring problem to me. But, thanks to this thread, I'm now torn between the Traveler and the FFUC. I love the sound quality of RME. I can hear the difference. I've never used a MH, but I've been told the audio quality is a notch better than RME. Not to get off subject (ultimately the needs of your mobile cart are more important) and not to say that MOTU's don't sound great (they do)... but for me the sound is a heavy consideration.

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Can you elaborate on some of the negative aspects of RME's TotalMix?...

That zipper issue sounds like a pretty glaring problem to me. But, thanks to this thread, I'm now torn between the Traveler and the FFUC. I love the sound quality of RME. I can hear the difference. I've never used a MH, but I've been told the audio quality is a notch better than RME....

First, let me say that none of these units are dependent on the software that comes with them. They can all act as a standalone interfaces with the computer. The software can be more useful for users that do not have an analog mixer feeding these boxes or want additional routing and possibly some DSP(digital signal processing ie eq, limiter, etc). Although one could route input signal from these units to their DAW of choice and mix there, it generally is more efficient, in terms of latency, to utilize the software provided by the manufacturer.

I used an octamic and a fireface400 with a control surface and mixed with Totalmix. The architecture of the software is such that one could make 6(i think) different stereo mixes that would route to the different outputs. That means that the main mix only goes to one stereo output. If other outputs are needed, different mixes would need to be created. Unless they are set and forget mixes, its not viable. To achieve what i needed, I would mix to the the SPDIF out, loop it to SPDIF in, and have that input/mix feed to the other outputs. It got confusing and was easy to create feedback loops if i made a mistake. What i did like about the software was the control surface interaction was flawless and one can save multiple mixer configurations that can open with a click. The picture below is an internet grab, but there is minimal customization possible with this software. One can choose which row to view/hide. Top row is input, middle is returns(DAW), bottom is outputs.

Setup.jpg

Using an octamic, I had no zipper issue with trims(maybe analog preamps. not sure). AFAIK the zipper sound is due to digitally adjusting trim. I'm surprised that this is heard in CueMix, when adjusting a fader, as that should be just a multiplier of the initial trim setting. One can hear the zipper noise with a Lectro SM transmitter(i say this because thats what i own. not sure if its present on zaxcom). Holding the level arrow up, on can hear the "zipper" sound which increases as gain increases. One can hear the clicking of trim increase on the MH2882 as well(but not when adjusting faders). The ULN8 and ULN2 do not have this.

I have never used CueMix and am not sure of its flexibility and user customization. Philip can answer to that. The MH software, MIO Console is fully user defined. Any input to any bus or aux routed to any output, pre or post DSP with numerous configuring options. All the DSP is done in the box and does not take any computer resources. I have multiple mixers created for different situations. Double click the icon and it opens. One can also send the "mixer" to a colleague(if i have an issue, i can send the mixer and log to MH for them to troubleshoot). This software, like CueMix is free to download and test. Below is an older mixer I had created ( i havent uploaded any of my newer ones but they are roughly similar)

[img width=500 height=500] MIOMono.jpg

MH and Apogee are EuCon(Euphonix) compatable. I am not sure if the MOTU and RME are.

Most of these products have a boot state. This means that once the software is configured, one can power up the box and it will have the user defined routing in place(no software required after boot state is set). This is beneficial if you are using an analog mixer and want additional outputs off the box.

As for sound quality, thats up to you and your ears

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