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Questions about using a battery distribution system for my bag...


Sam Mallery

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I'm seriously thinking about getting a Lectro SR receiver and a Remote Audio battery distribution system for my bag. I just have a few questions for before I take the plunge...

1) Some time ago I recall reading about a noise issue when I was researching battery distribution systems on RAMPS. There was a person saying that they only used an NP1 to power their two 400 series receivers, because if they also distributed power to their mixer they would get noise. Is this a common issue, or an isolated one?

2) As far as batteries & chargers go, I'm thinking of getting two IDX NP-L7S:

http://www.idxtek.com/products/np_b.html

and an IDX JL-2Plus charger:

http://www.idxtek.com/products/np_ch.html

Is this the best choice for powering an SR receiver, a 302, and potentially one or two more devices, or would your recommend something else?

3) How do these batteries handle not being fully depleted? For example, if you have a fully charged NP1 and you only use it for short periods of time while testing things out - or using it for a short 2 hour job, do you typically try to deplete the battery afterward, or just put it away until the next time you need it and pick up where you left off charge-wise?

4) I'm going to be using this in a Petrol PSDMB-302 bag (the one for the 302). Does anyone have any words of wisdom concerning using a battery distribution system (and perhaps a Lectro SR) and this bag?

Many thanks,

Sam

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I use the same battery with my over-the-shoulder kit.  It powers the mixer, several wireless, transmitters, etc.  However, I make my own D.C. distro systems, custom wired for the specific rig.  As far as the noise issue, this can sometimes happen due to spurious frequencies (sometimes generated by a device's internal circuitry) and grounding issues.  Often the best course is to try a system to see if there are any problems and then address them.

No, you do not need to (or want to) run lithium batteries down fully before recharging.  They're happier if you simply use them normally and then recharge.

As a side note, I also use the same batteries -- in tandem -- as D.C. cart power connected to a (custom voltage) PSC "Cart Power" A.C. to D.C. supply.  If the A.C. drops, the batteries kick in seamlessly and can power the cart for a few hours.

My IDX lithiums have been a good purchase.

John B.

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Question for John and Oleg:

In your home-brew DC rigs do you bother to use fuses, RF filters, and switches?  I"m considering building my own based around the hirose 4p connectors but I'm not sure if those things are a good idea or just embellishments that the likes of Battery Bud and BDS throw in to make you feel you're getting your money's worth.  Can you recommend any good small metal project boxes for making a battery bud style device?

And to the OP:

I've experienced noise due to a DC distro in the following situation:  Zaxcom Stereoline Tx, 4x Senn Ek3041 Rx's, and 1 Alphamix all powered via the Alpha's built-in NP1 power headers.  In this scenario the Zax was spitting back some high-frequency filth into some of the Ek3041 channels.  My solution was to abide by the Zaxcom user guide and add a humongo capacitor onto the Stereoline's power cable.  Now the noise is reduced to almost nothing (though I can still hear it if I really crank the gain on the other channels, but in normal use it's well below the noise floor)

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couple thoughts:

the Hirose connectors are more costly than the inexpensive coaxial connectors, and there are other alternatives, too, bot more and less costly, if you make your own.

but, yes, the Hirose connectors do have advantages over the coaxial connectors.

I like using XLR-4's for DC power...

fuses are always a good idea!

filtering is also a good idea, may be done inexpensively and simply, and as my mother used to say about chicken soup: "it couldn't hurt"

and it is also possible to power your kit with the camcorder type Lithium-ion batteries...

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http://www.batteryspace.com/li-ionuniversalexternalbattery33-144v60whforallportabledevices.aspx

60 w incl single charger -  best bang for the buck , i have few  similar , works fine

Oleg, thanks for the info. I somehow got it in my head that there was a weight advantage to IDX, but that NP-1040 is actually a little lighter (IDX = 498.95 grams, NP-1040 = 465). Looks like I may be rethinking my plan over here...

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I'm sure the other batteries are fine, but fyi the premium for IDX is not "three times the price".  It's $115 for the NP-1040 vs. $175 for IDX NP-L7S.  And the the IDX is 71Wh vs. 60Wh for the other, which probably accounts for the weight difference.  My custom DC rigs all split out from a 4-pin XLR male and work flawlessly and have saved me money, weight, and space.  As mentioned, the big thing is to ALWAYS tape off the unused connectors.  And I second the advice to change them whenever you can.  They'll last longer if you don't run them down.

Paul

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.... all this is hypothetical as idx  is made in mexico  and  buying them is like  supporting  more working spaces for these who may jump over the fans  and leave you without work    then  buy something made in  china  and make them  jump :-)

Contrary to world opinion, the US-Mexico border is not a line of giant fans! Every once in a wile you will come across a fence (I think they have some border fences in Israel, don't they?) and a real border crossing but vast parts are nothing more than a river bed.

Best regards,

Jim

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Crap aside, there's some interesting powering information here, worth looking into. I posted a link to this picture of my homemade BDS on RAMPS a few months ago;

Homemade%20BDS.jpg

It's not sexy, but it was never made to be seen. Buried in the bag, it's an NP cup to a 4XLR. From the XLR, it splits to a 4-pin Hirose for my 442, 3 molded 90's for my Lectro Rx's, another molded 90 for my Stereoline Tx, and another for the 3 DCV my Edirol R-09 HR needs. No switches; I turn things off individually.This is the latest version of several homemade BDS's I've made, starting with the one I made for my Cooper 104 several years ago. I've never had a failure or any other problem. Molded 90 coaxes have proven to be rock solid, from my experience. I've never used RF filters (not by choice, but by lack of electronics knowledge), but as J1N notes, like a good chicken soup, it probably wouldn't hurt. NP cup and switching regulator to power the Edirol aside, about $50 in parts.

I bought a 302 a little over a month ago for the lighter jobs I do. I already had a 2nd NP cup to 4XLR  (in my kit, every specialty connector/adaptor/cable is backed-up), so I made a BDS for it. I'll definitely be reconsidering my powering options, as long as I can make it end in a 4XLR.

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Nice work Andre,

I have a similar design in use right now with my alphamix.  I've made a hirose-->XLR4-->4x hirose's  This is to power 4x sennheiser 3041 recievers from one of the power taps of the alphamix.  Works well, and I've never had a short or cable failure.  The XLR4 is mostly unnecesary but you need a bigger connector to work on if you want a 4-lead fan tail.  A project box would probably be cheaper but this way it's more modular.

I'm thinking for my next rig (new mixer coming soon) I may just put down the bucks for a battery bud which uses the hirose's as well.. it would make all my current cables compatible.  I just wish the thing had more than 3 outputs..

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Crap aside, there's some interesting powering information here, worth looking into. I posted a link to this picture of my homemade BDS on RAMPS a few months ago;

Homemade%20BDS.jpg

It's not sexy, but it was never made to be seen. Buried in the bag, it's an NP cup to a 4XLR. From the XLR, it splits to a 4-pin Hirose for my 442, 3 molded 90's for my Lectro Rx's, another molded 90 for my Stereoline Tx, and another for the 3 DCV my Edirol R-09 HR needs. No switches; I turn things off individually.This is the latest version of several homemade BDS's I've made, starting with the one I made for my Cooper 104 several years ago. I've never had a failure or any other problem. Molded 90 coaxes have proven to be rock solid, from my experience. I've never used RF filters (not by choice, but by lack of electronics knowledge), but as J1N notes, like a good chicken soup, it probably wouldn't hurt. NP cup and switching regulator to power the Edirol aside, about $50 in parts.

I bought a 302 a little over a month ago for the lighter jobs I do. I already had a 2nd NP cup to 4XLR  (in my kit, every specialty connector/adaptor/cable is backed-up), so I made a BDS for it. I'll definitely be reconsidering my powering options, as long as I can make it end in a 4XLR.

Well done. 

Philip Perkins

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My custom rigs are sorta along the lines of André's with the addition that they're modular.  I use TA4 connectors -- they lock, are dependable, small in size, and cost a great deal less than Hirose.  The distros also have a master power switch which attaches to the side of the bag.

John B.

I'd love to see a picture. In order to take mine, I had to pull my bag apart, which turned into a good opportunity for some major cleaning - it's incredible the stuff that gets in there. The weakness of my setup is the lack of a master switch.

Thanks for the "é". Nice detail.

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I do very little bag work, but don't want to eliminate the work possibilities.  Working a few hours is no problem, but it's the all day for several days thing that I need help with.  The last job I did from the bag, I simply used on-board/internal rechargeable batteries.  Fine for the 302 and 744T and a couple of 411s, with power management.  I have an upright Magliner which I hang the bag from and power/charge the 744T with a PSC Powerstation.  But my new 788T, which offers more flexibility, is a great deal more power hungry.

On this last job, I had a power cable built for my 411s to power from the Powerstation for insert car shots.  The Powerstation also powered my 788T.  The problem, however, is that as long as the cables are plugged in the bottom of the 411, the receiver looks for external power.  If it loses external power, they do not default to an internal battery.  Bad design in my opinion.  This makes bag power a little more critical.

Does anyone use a battery belt or does everyone using this sort of NP1 system?  If I am running a 788T and let's say 4 x 411 receivers, how long will the Lithium IDX last.  I see the pictures of the cables here, but without any sort of fuse protection or anything to regulate the power supply.  Is this what most of you are doing, and have there been some mishaps.

I don't mind spending the money for the "right" gear.  I've read this thread.  But if you could start from scratch to power your bag, given all of you experiences, what do you suggest?

Thanks in advance for you advice.

Robert

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...if you could start from scratch to power your bag, given all of you experiences, what do you suggest?

+1

Oleg - just to be clear, in order to charge the B4B 1040-NP battery you suggested, what other equipment is needed? Can the NP1 plug directly into the Globalmediapro SC1 1-channel Mini Charger, or do you need more parts? Or do you use the same NP1 cup from your bag in conjunction with the SC1?

André - I have an Edirol R-09HR in my bag as well that I'd like to distribute power to. Is the lead that you use commercially available, or is it custom only?

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André - I have an Edirol R-09HR in my bag as well that I'd like to distribute power to. Is the lead that you use commercially available, or is it custom only?

http://www.dimensionengineering.com/DE-SW033.htm

IIRC, the Edirol requires 3V. At 3.3V, I haven't had a problem. It's a quick 'n easy solder job.

I'll give credit to Andy Turrett for providing me with the link right here on JWsound.

edit: Since I no longer saw a use for the AC supply, I used the molded 90 from it for the Vout of the switching regulator.

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the only thing against battery4less , they are 1 mm thinker for deva np slot  , so you will have to go and take this mm out , ut since you are not with deva  , you dont have 2

Oleg

Do the Globalmedia NP1s have the same 1mm problem ? Picture wise they look more or less the same.

How hard/easy is to take this 1mm away?

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@ Robert,

I've been doing a mix of bag/cart work with my start.  I saw the need for a consolidated power system after my first bag shoot and ended up with a NP-1 style system.  I use a Battery Bud from a 13.2v NP-1 style NiMH battery.  I have it powering my 702T,ProMix6, and 2 411a's.  I keep each of these components with their own internal batteries as well just in case, but so far I've been able to keep things running well all day with just two fully charged NP's, (keeping good power management in practice, not continuous).

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