Greg Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hi all. This would be my first real post on the site, and I'm going to try and use it to ask a few realtive questions and hopefully not many silly ones. I live and work in Cape Town ( South Africa ). I did 3 years at Collage, 7 years as a Boomswinger and 2 years recording. Out of the spectra of sound possiblities there are to offer and from what I have experieced to date I have chosen to prusue recording sound for film as my core love for being a Sound Engineer. during the past years I have invested in equipment that was as versitile as I needed to be. The ENG approach basically was my start. I now realise that I need to "settle" into a workflow of a different kind. A work flow which makes a fundemental recording solution for the next level of fillm making I want to service. I have always thought of upgrading recording in even numbers like 2/6/8 (track systems). So Natually I started with a 2 track recorder, and now want to step up in the best possible way to 6. My current equipment is as follows Sound devices 702T Sound devices 302 Sennheiser G2 radios (x2) Sennheiser 416 Cart Cables drums 12V DC deep Cell marine batteries for power. Petrol PEGZ 2 bag Maxi Panamic boom I thought of going for the following as an upgrade what do you guys think. adding to the current list Sound devices 744T / CL 1 and C link the two machines. x4 lectrosonics U400 ( RX and TX sets ). with Country man B6 mics x6 Lectrosonic IFB ( TX units ) with TX unit Audio Developments AD 146 with DI outs Coss 11 Hard line Lavier Np1 Batteries with BDS system. The thig is. Staying in South Africa I can't physically goto a store and view the gear,importing costs extra too, so I need some direct advise. I have been looking at the following on line stores for the best rates. www.nagrit.com www.prosound.com www.trewaudio.com This is my first time approaching my bank manager for a company loan for the upgrade amount, I'm sure that many of you all have been there at least once. Im asking for about $ 16000.00 to pay back over 5 years. I hope to gain some guidence in the posts, and wish you all a prosprous new year Regards Greg Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Holm Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hi Greg! Looks like you have good ideas for your upgrade. I have similar setup. I prefer cooper(sound vise) but since they ceased manufacturing AD is a good choice. Maybe if u find a used cooper 106 that would be an alternative if u go with the 744t. But then again that is my personal choice and the AD is very nice! As u have 2 years of "cart" work and love the job(as all the guys here:)... u can see your investment for a longer time. I would go for 788t. So u have the 2 track down mix on 702t or as a "grab" recorder for car rigs or run and shoot situations. Best of luck Christian Holm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabi Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Greg, I think you should consider selling your 702T and getting a higher track count recorder instead of linking two recorders which creates a workflow issue for you: you would have to combine two files into one after wrap, or you should deliver two separate files for every take. (dozens or even hundreds of takes everyday) Another option you should consider is the Comtek instead of Lectro for IFBs. Comtek receivers are much cheaper and very reliable. Concerning the wireless, perhaps you mean the Lectro 411? http://www.lectrosonics.com/wireless/400/ucr411a.htm These are great units. And if you still do some ENG work they are a good choice. If you intend to do only cart based work, the Venue might be an option: http://www.lectrosonics.com/hybrid/venue/venue.htm One less expensive but very robust, versatile and reliable solution for wireless is to get two Lectro SR receivers instead of four UCR411. These would work well for bag gigs as well with the advantage of being lighter. Good luck, Gabi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobD Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 +1 Prosound.com Rich Jr. and before him his dad Rich Topham Sr. and the folks there at Pro Sound have been in this business providing motion picture sound equipment starting in Los Angeles At LSC, and now in N.Y. as long as I can remember. They are a great company and recommend them highly. They have done well for me for MANY MANY years... Great prices, a reputable company and great service. That is all I can say... I have spent thousands over the years with them for those reasons, and consider them the first stop when it comes to my purchasing of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 maybe the AD 146 has changed over the years but I (and some fellow mixers too) had some real problems with the combination AD 146 (w/o DOut) and the SD744T. There was a serious noise floor issue when feeding the 4tracks from the 4 busses. I did one TV mini series where I needed to reduce the output level of the AD by a third to get acceptable noise floor. When shooting quiet scenes I was plugging the boom directly into the 744T. Also doing quiet room tones was not possible. But a friend of mine now is working with a 146 and 788 and got no probs. The 744T was working well in combination with a Soundcraft LM1 and currently with my Cooper 208. Just a thought ... Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 decisions, decisions, decisions... ultimately, your subjective values will be key, as there is a lot of excellent professional gear to choose from... some thoughts... NP-1's are more for portable powering than cart powering, where your big heavy battery is fine; adding some NP-1's will still be a good idea in making your package more flexible... also, for flexibility, the Lectrosonics SR's are an excellent choice, but why are you getting a wired sanken COS-11?? get a "D" and have it wired with a TA-5 for your Lectro TX's with a mating TA-5 to the power module... The B6's are tiny, but a lot of folks like having a variety of mic's to choose from, including Countryman's popular EMW's, and the Sanken's... The Comtek's are a fine alternative to the Lectro IFB's, and the savings could buy more Lav's, and maybe another mic for booming... (more decisions!!) the good news is that with the guidance of one of the dealers you mention, and your own careful consideration, there are lots of good choices for you to make. with experience, whatever you choose, you will be able to make it do the work, and remember that it is all about the archer, not just about the arrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Paine Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hey Greg, You live in a beautiful part of the world. I still remember the beautiful view from Table mountain. And the week I spent in Kruger was a once in a lifetime experience....but I digress. I would have to second the suggestion that it would be better to go straight to a 788T. linking 2 machines is good in theory, but it would streamline your workflow immensely with just the one. I'd also suggest maybe getting a non interference tube microphone for interior booming. Many to choose from. Money spent on a high quality microphone is never wasted. If I look at my own personal kit, I've changed, upgraded and replaced just about everything, but I've kept all my microphones. I got the best I could afford at the time, and there still pretty much "standard issue", and still going strong today. Well, I'm off to the "Drankwinkle" to get a bottle of Stellenbosch Pinotage ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted January 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Hey guys thanks for all the suggestions. Simon, I live about 20 min from Stellembosh and 5min away from the beach where Robbin Island is. There is allot of beauty in Cape Town, and I guess thats why we are very seasonal with commercials, and the fact that the exchange rate is about 7-10 times. I just wish that the gear was not so hard to buy and maintain in after sales. I guess I thought of 2 machines in the workflow because I needed a backup if anything went wrong and if I needed to do a quick setup in a bag for car rigs. I can see the logic in using 1 machine when trying to consolidate files onto disc and generate corresponding PDF reports. I was worried about being limited. If I was going to have one x8 track machine and 2 track backup would the Fostex DV824 be a good enough choice to do the job? I always thought that having 2 boomswinger was in some cases "better" than putting up 5 radios ( I'm sure that for this debate I will need to have more experience in mixing to argue ) But it's cheaper, quicker and natural sounding to me. Anyway what are some good interior mics to starts of with. "I agree that an artist needs good colours to paint with !" I will look into some comtek IFB systems mentioned in the post as well as some Lectro models too. For radios I would be more confidant setting something up that has 100mw of transmission power. Oh in South Africa there seems to be no guidelines as to what frequencies and strength you can use. Regarding the microphones for the TX units I have no clue what my preference would be cause I haven't heard enough verity, so I will need very specific help on bullet proof laviers. The motive for the BDS power is to help my transition in gear from bag to cart. at the moment I'm using too many AA and 9V batteries the be anywhere Eco friendly I need some better power sources. Thanks again guys I have many many questions for the future. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Holm Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Must agree 2 booms is better than 100 radios... //Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 One less expensive but very robust, versatile and reliable solution for wireless is to get two Lectro SR receivers instead of four UCR411. These would work well for bag gigs as well with the advantage of being lighter. Gabi I was thinking about this same idea with the SR receivers, however they're not by any means a UCR411a in comparison. I read some reviews of them compared to a 411a and they have differences like (true-diversity) when running in dual channel mode, which was my biggest concern. I spoke with one of their sales reps not too long ago about this, and without them actually admitting it over the phone I was able to get them to bite their lip on how the SR runs while in dual mode. I like the 411a's because of their stability and I would not sacrifice that by any means for a slightly lighter bag and save space, but that's just me. It's an expensive decision between the x2 SR and x4 411's for sure, but don't forget you need to buy the stand alone adapters for the SR's as well. I believe with the L/M type battery option each unit was around 2,400. Maybe try getting one SR and x2 411a ? Then you can at least A/B the units yourself and adjust from there. I also started with a 702T, and was really close to getting a 744t to lock to it. I dropped the 744T for a macbook pro/motu traveler/Boom Recorder set up and landed close to 2 grand less than going for the second sound devices recorder. Since you said you're looking to expand more for your cart set up, you might wana think... well.. "out side of the bag" so to speak since you have more room to play with . Also, don't sell your 702T, besides it being a great bag recorder and 2track master, it's an excellent TC generator if you have nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabi Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Regarding the microphones for the TX units I have no clue what my preference would be cause I haven't heard enough verity, so I will need very specific help on bullet proof lavaliers. The motive for the BDS power is to help my transition in gear from bag to cart. at the moment I'm using too many AA and 9V batteries the be anywhere Eco friendly I need some better power sources. About receivers, the UCR411a has advantages over the SR such as a tracking front end. But the SR is also a camera hop (you might need one from time to time), has its own rechargeable battery slot (sony camera style, same as your 702T recorder, so you already have the chargers) and one SR unit will cost you less than two UCR411a. Its all a trade off, of course. About transmission power, these might be a good solution for you: http://www.lectrosonics.com/hybrid/sm/smv.htm You can stay in 100mW forever as 50mW does not save any battery power, and change to 250mW whenever you need it. About lavalier choice, that is very subjective. You should try and test some different models from different manufactures whenever you have the chance. This might be interesting: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html About going green, you should give these a try: http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=415 http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=780&cat=2&page=1 Good luck, Gabi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted January 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 mmm Boom recorder = inverters. I like the thought of not having to rely on AC. I do agree that the software is great and offer lots of meta data info but I can't quite imagine using a laptop in some of the natural conditions were subjected to in this line of work. I reccon Boom recorder is great for studio gigs and controlled environments. here is my first stupid question. Can I use the SM series TX units with the UCR411a RX units. I kinda like the idea on x2 UCR411a and x1 SR Rx. Those TX units look great ! I'm now playing with the Thought of x2 SMV TX units with x1 SR RX unit and x2 SMVQ with x2 UCR411a. this way I will have the camera link if needed for some ENG. Also the ability to operate from 50mw to 250mw. Now a mixer ..... I'm feeling the 6 track sonasax but I don't think my bank manager will like the idea. thanks for all the info guys. lots of reading to do Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Why does Boom recorder = Inverters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Now a mixer ..... I'm feeling the 6 track sonasax but I don't think my bank manager will like the idea. I'm not sure about the tax laws in your country but what about a lease on the equipment? Talk to an accountant and find out about the best way to aquire plant for your business, it'll be worth it. A bank loan is only one method and sometimes not the best when it comes to tax issues. Remember, you are a business and finance companies/banks want your money so shop around and get professional advise before you commit to a loan/lease/hirepurchase agreement. Regards, Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 SM units work fine with the 411a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 mmm Boom recorder = inverters. I like the thought of not having to rely on AC. I do agree that the software is great and offer lots of meta data info but I can't quite imagine using a laptop in some of the natural conditions were subjected to in this line of work. I reccon Boom recorder is great for studio gigs and controlled environments. using a computer and boomrecorder or metacorder does not have to be reliant on shore power for long run times. I have used this battery for 3 features. Its adds over 7 hours run time to my macbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Timan Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 using a computer and boomrecorder or metacorder does not have to be reliant on shore power for long run times. I second this notion....even without this impressive external battery, I use the DC power adapter supplied with the computer most of the time and use the MacBook internal battery for moments in between having power. I carry a spare MacBook battery, but have never needed to use it with the prevalence of readily available AC power on almost every set I find myself on. I have never needed an inverter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 using a computer and boomrecorder or metacorder does not have to be reliant on shore power for long run times. I have used this battery for 3 features. Its adds over 7 hours run time to my macbook. The HyperMac External battery is the way to go. Very nicely packaged, functional, and you can run your MacBook or MacBook Pro for days. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan chiles Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hey Greg I am back in Cape Town, give me a call sometime: 082 3116757 Another option is to do the gear bit by bit. There are alot of used 744's going right now, so you could pick one up for $3500. Unless you really need more than 4 tracks in which case maybe a used PD6 could be an option. Also with wireless the 27/28/29 blocks which are being sold off quite heavily in the US are totally useable in SA. So if you talk to Trew/Pro-Sound/Gotham/LSC etc chances are you can find a few sets of UM400/411 for under $2000 US, buy 2 at a time maybe? Then use your Senn G2's as IFB's and get some Sanken COS 11D's for the Lectros. Then all you need is a mixer. Again there are alot of Sound Devices 442's being sold off for $1800US right now. So you could use one of those as your front end (with 4 direct outs for the 744) unless you're set on linear faders in which case an Allen & Heath mix wizard might do the trick and not break the bank. The Lectro wireless output line level so you dont use the preamps on the A&H and then you can run the boom through the SD302 to use that preamp and limiter.. Anyways, it always pays to get the best gear you can afford at the time, but buying used stuff through one of the US location sound dealers could save you a bunch. Jon Chiles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 " differences like (true-diversity) " I find the term "true diversity" gets a lot of mis-use: there are numerous ways to have a diversity wireless microphone system, and all of them are true diversity!! there are antenna combining, switching, and phasing diversity solutions, dual front end (RF) diversity, dual receiver diversity, networked diversity, voting diversity, and more. (did you know that XM and Sirius both employ a form of diversity?? it is diversity transmission!) comparisons amongst the Lectrosonics products have been covered, and discussed, and discussed more. The 400 Digital Hybrid line is mix-and-match. several of their receivers offer selection of their diversity systems... the 50 mw power setting has been discussed, it is an interference measure, not a battery measure... Lectrosonics has a lot of helpful, useful FAQ's on their web site, they have an active user discussion and support forum, and are really good about answering emails, particularly to help in the decision making process, or with support issues. ultimately there are a lot of good professional products to choose from, some objective factors to consider (like local or nearby support, landed costs, upkeep, and so forth) and the final choice is a subjective, personal decision only the buyer can make... ...and that archer thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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