PCMsoundie Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I have considered getting 1 Lav for a noisy location with a presenter direct to camera where the lav can be visible, perhaps a cardiod pattern lav but only if the presenter is directly addressing the camera without a sweeping arm gesture and head turn. After this week I am considering something else: I recently had to use the VT500 single lav in a supermarket using Lectro 411 unit. Background ambience faded way to the background much more so than many other lavs I've used. And later that day, two separate provided lav models on 2 talent on-camera together using Lectro 411 units. -A white Voice Technologies VT500 -Lav Mic which was for a broadcast TV talkshow segment on-location and (white vampire clipped in visible on a white shirt.) -Tram TR-50 with clip (black Lav visible on a black shirt). When both talent in a modern kitchen with lots of hard surfaces: I found the VT500 mic while a electret condenser omnidirectional mic almost behaved like a dynamic mic compared to the Tram TR-50 I had to use for the other talent. The Tram picked up all sorts of near reflections and reverb. Monitoring in mono it sounded fine and granted the VT500 left something to be desired in the upper frequency range but for a very noisy location I may decide to use it for a better signal-to-noise isolation down the road. So today I looked it up and saw there is another model. Voice Technologies VT506 - Lavalier Microphone with 6dB High Frequency Rise - Omnidirectional At only around $10. difference from teh VT500 other than the 6dB High Frequency Rise are there any differences? Would you guys recommend the VT506 instead to use for visible situations in a noisy environment? I've used over the years COS-11, Tram TR-50, Countryman B6, Sony ECM-77B, Sony ECM-55, MKE104 cardiod (in a live PA system use), those 'prize-in-the-box' Lectrosonics M-150 Lavs Does anyone else have a visible lav they like to use wireless specifically for a very noisy location for better isolation (not buried under layers of fabric for isolation purposes)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 If it's really noisy, and the mike can appear on camera as part of something like a commercial, maybe consider the Countryman E6, available in both directional and omni versions. Widely used in Broadway shows, etc. (and in by that "Shamwow" TV pitchman). Rent one before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on them. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 If it's really noisy, and the mike can appear on camera as part of something like a commercial, maybe consider the Countryman E6, available in both directional and omni versions. Widely used in Broadway shows, etc. (and in by that "Shamwow" TV pitchman). Rent one before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on them. --Marc W. The mic in the Shamwow spots is most definitely NOT an E6. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 I know it's an earworn mike, but I try not to watch these commercials that closely. Is it a cheap E6 imitation? --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 I know it's an earworn mike, but I try not to watch these commercials that closely. Is it a cheap E6 imitation? --Marc W. Not even close as the E6 stalk only gets to the side of the mouth and is almost invisable. Have no clue what system is being used in the spot. I have a feeling that it was chosen just because it does add a certain "carnival pitchman" look. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 the directional Countryman earsets are really directional, too... requires careful positioning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVS Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 You might like to have a look at the DPA 4088...its used for vocals on stage..it is directional and needs to be positioned correctly,but it is the best solution....nice sound. http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=116&item=24062 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Lopez Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 What about the 4080 cardioid mic? Does anybody had any experience with this mic in film and trying to cover it under the cloth? How does it work in that situation? Best regards. Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 cardioid lav mic's are more susceptible to any clothing sounds, wind noise, as well as pointing errors (like head turns)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Lopez Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 cardioid lav mic's are more susceptible to any clothing sounds, as well as pointing errors (like head turns)... Thanks senator for your response. Didn't know that they are more susceptible to clothing noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 ...and wind noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan chiles Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 I would skip the cardioid lav personally. Have tried them and never been satisfied, head turns = level drop and they get blasted by wind and breath. Why not go for a red dot/red band mic like the sanken COS11 or Sennheiser MKE2? Get your host to project nicely or mic closer than you would usually and any noisy background shouldnt be too problematic. I havnt tried the VT mics though, and they may be just the ticket.. try a few out if you can and trust your ears:) Jon Chiles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Lopez Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 There's a thread here that suggests the Sonotrim as a good mic for noisy locations. What are your thoughts about this mic? Best regards, Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCMsoundie Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I would skip the cardioid lav personally. Have tried them and never been satisfied, head turns = level drop and they get blasted by wind and breath. Thanks for all the replies to this one guys. I have a couple red dot COS-11s. I don't feel they do the trick as far as really behaving like a dynamic mic or the feeling I got from the VT500 on that gig. I only mentioned the cardiod lav mic as I had considered it in the past and put the idea on the back burner as sometimes it is easier to bury the omni lavmic (except during summer) for more isolation than deal with talent who moves their head around during a direct-to-camera talk with a cardiod lav. I have access to the Voice Technologies VT500 with one client so I'll try them out in a few other situations and compare with a COS-11. I've not used the Sonotrim STR-ML lav but perhaps a demo at a vendor in town is in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel McIntosh Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I find the Sonotrim to be the quietest, most isolating lav in my arsenal. It is the first lav I reach for on the streets of NYC, and I work hard to make it work with the myriad of wardrobe issues. I own and use most of the typical lavs this community uses, but I have not used two of the lavs that appear similar to to the Sonotrim: The Countryman EMW, and the Voice Technologies 500 series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCMsoundie Posted March 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 thanks for the comments guys. I was testing two COS-11s the other day about 1/2 inch apart with bothfaders open MONO monitoring and it was a noisy hotel atrium environment with me talking. The closerthey were the thinner sounding it got yet the background faded away and more isolating. I thought I'd try switching one out ofphase and it became full bodied again for the voice. I've been thinking about it since. I was wondering for 2 matching lavs on a double mic tie clip (fully visible for a presenter/host or news correspondent) ina loud location mixed to the same channel would this help removebackground noise if the one out of phase did not have any low cut filters engaged? Would this be even better (more isolating) if I had both mics full frequency without engaging any low-cut filters on the mixer thus reducing the low frequency broadband noise even more since the out of phase sound should cancel out the rumble? Any other phase reversal tricks with lavs others have tried that have worked on-location for dialogue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 " would this help removebackground noise if the one out of phase did not have any low cut filters engaged? " I can give you a definite maybe on that! try it and see; "phase flopping" is something we normally do to see which way sounds better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Would this be even better (more isolating) if I had both mics full frequency without engaging any low-cut filters on the mixer thus reducing the low frequency broadband noise even more since the out of phase sound should cancel out the rumble? Any other phase reversal tricks with lavs others have tried that have worked on-location for dialogue? I think I'm gonna have to do some experimenting. I wonder what would happen if you also mount one of the capsules out of phase? Drummers and guitarists use this method to fatten up a thin-sounding bass drums and amps. Mic the bass drum or guitar amp from the front and rear at the same time, then flip the phase of one mic on the console. Don't know if it will help in this situation, but is very effective to fatten up a thin-sounding bass drum. Worth a try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I think I'm gonna have to do some experimenting. I wonder what would happen if you also mount one of the capsules out of phase? Drummers and guitarists use this method to fatten up a thin-sounding bass drums and amps. Mic the bass drum or guitar amp from the front and rear at the same time, then flip the phase of one mic on the console. Don't know if it will help in this situation, but is very effective to fatten up a thin-sounding bass drum. Worth a try? Everyone should experiment. I did, with this notion (in the field as well as in the shop) and it did not work for me. Too many variables.... Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I think I'm gonna have to do some experimenting. I wonder what would happen if you also mount one of the capsules out of phase? We did this on ENG news in situations where we had reporters standing near jet planes and other overly-loud situations, just in a desperate attempt to get some kind of usable sound. The problem I encountered was, the background noise levels tended to "pump" depending on the in-phase signal. It's not an easy fix for all noisy locations, more like a band-aid. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoff Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I think I'm gonna have to do some experimenting. I wonder what would happen if you also mount one of the capsules out of phase? Drummers and guitarists use this method to fatten up a thin-sounding bass drums and amps. Mic the bass drum or guitar amp from the front and rear at the same time, then flip the phase of one mic on the console. Don't know if it will help in this situation, but is very effective to fatten up a thin-sounding bass drum. Worth a try? The reason the amp sounds thin, in your example, is because the mics are picking up the amp acoustically out of phase. The front mic is picking up the cone moving towards it, while the rear mic is picking up the cone moving away from it. When you flip the (electronic) phase on one mic you are now picking up the source in phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscottage Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Are you aware of the Sanken Cos22? It looks like it might be a good solution. I haven't tried it as it's not available in Europe. http://www.sanken-mic.com/en/product/product.cfm/5.1004900 "The Sanken COS-22 is the world’s first 2ch lavalier microphone. In the tradition of the popular Sanken COS-11 lavalier series, the ultra miniature COS-22 measures only 31.6mm (1.25”) in length but boasts a full frequency response up to 20,000 Hz. The two-channel, dual-omnidirectional COS-22 is designed for a variety of applications, including high quality unobtrusive area miking, stereo recording of music and environmental ambience, redundant capsule live broadcast (e.g. news anchors), and boundary-style miking for film and television. In addition, the COS-22 can be used as a noise cancellation directional microphone pair by reversing the phase of one channel before summing the two outputs." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 " Have any of you tried the Sanken Cos22? " have you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscottage Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 " Have any of you tried the Sanken Cos22? " have you ? No. I edited my original comment; as you (indirectly) pointed out my original post wasn't particularly well phrased. Apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 " In addition, the COS-22 can be used as a noise cancellation directional microphone pair by reversing the phase of one channel before summing the two outputs." " er... maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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