For those using the MM1 or MP1 for wireless boom...

[RPSharman]

Just curious, for those of you using the SD MM1 or MP1 in front of their wireless for booming, do you attenuate the signal out of the SD unit with a resistor in the XLR-TA5 cable, or do you simply turn the transmitter all the way down?  And can you turn down the Lectros enough, especially since they upped the gain on the newer 400a Tx?  The manuals on both SD units show line level output only.

And by using the MM1 or the MP1, aren't you just going through a second pre amp?

I like the idea of having better limiters than the ones on my Lectros, but I am wondering if adding the MM1 or MP1 is better than just turning down the transmitter so it cannot hit the limiter, and turning it up on the other end.  Obviously this is not better in predictably quiet scenes or very quiet environments, but for every day use.  Lectro suggests turning up their transmitters so you bump the limiter at peaks in normal dialog, but I have found this to be unacceptable.

More and more I am finding actors to be less and less predictable from take to take.  I am trying to stick with wireless boom, but want to see if there are better options that do not require buying a whole new system.

Robert

[Brent Lestage]

Robert,

I use an attenuated TA5 cable from the MM1 to my UM400. I frequently set TX gain at around 12 o'clock with the MM1's preamp gain set between 42 and 46dB (for my particular mics), and am taking a line level signal out of the 411A into my console.

I've had plenty of usable headroom and great results.

--

Brent

[David Waelder]

I use an attenuated TA5 cable from the MM1 to my UM400. I frequently set TX gain at around 12 o'clock with the MM1's preamp gain set between 42 and 46dB

[snip]

That sounds pretty similar to my rig and my experience.

Marc Lesonsky made my TA5-XLR cable and probably recalls the specs. I think it is a 50dB pad. In any event, with an SMQV set at 20, I use the MM-1 preamp at 42. For yelling, I back it off to 36 and for whispers I bump it up to 46 (I think that's the number progression on the MM-1).

I expect that you are right about using two preamps and this potentially introducing noise or artifacts but, in practice, it works very well. The signal is well modulated before it gets to the Lectro pre-amp and it's pretty much a pass-through. I found it very difficult to configure the system so that the Lectro limiter never comes into play. But it's entirely possible to set things up so that the MM-1 limiter is beginning to work first and the Lectro limiter only comes briefly into play with a very hot signal. In practice, it works very well and you never get really "nailed."

David Waelder

[johnpaul215]

Just to make sure.... you know there are different XLR-TA5 cables for mic level or line level feeds to a Lectro bodypack, right?

We usually have the MM-1 gain at 28. +/- a click or two depending on the situation, microphone etc. That's the initial setting we use with a 416 or 8040. I then use a line level wired XLR-TA5 cable to feed the bodypack, because the MM-1 output is line level.

I have done some wireless boom with a Denecke PS-1 and a mic level XLR-TA5 cable to feed the bodypack. One simple advantage of the MM-1 setup is the boom op having a top quality monitor (as opposed to a Comtek). My boom op is happier with the MM-1 setup, and I have no issues with the sound quality, so that's what we have been using.

There is that weird issue with MM-1s where the slate sometimes sounds weird. It's not the limiter. There was a thread about this a year or two ago on RAMPS. I've used the MM-1 on features shot on film and I never had a complaint from post about syncing issues.

[soundtrane]

Using a UH butt plug for a while, I too feel sometimes it is messy. I wonder why. Haven't had the time to figure it out, but i intend to do so. the mics plugged in are MKH50 or CS3e...

-vin

[gabi]

This is the wiring I've been using for the last couple of feature films:

http://www.trewaudio.com/audioflow/2009/03/17/lectro-line-level-input-cable-recommendation/

Works like a charm. Great signal to noise, lots of headroom. I set my UM400 to nine o'clock and the transmitter's limiter rarely gets to kick in. As for the MM1 settings anything from 36 (yelling) to 46 (whispering).

There is that weird issue with MM-1s where the slate sometimes sounds weird. It's not the limiter. There was a thread about this a year or two ago on RAMPS. I've used the MM-1 on features shot on film and I never had a complaint from post about syncing issues.

I have noticed this as well. Sometimes the limiters kick so hard when they clap the slate that we can barely hear it. But it happens occasionally.

Gabi

[RPSharman]

Just to make sure.... you know there are different XLR-TA5 cables for mic level or line level feeds to a Lectro bodypack, right?

Yes - The line level cable adds a resistor to bring the signal to mic level for the transmitter.  This is why I was asking if people used a mic level cable to the transmitter and turned it down all the way.  It seems, however, one cannot turn it down enough.  Then that begs the question about whether going through the MM1 pre amp, amplifying the signal to line level, then attenuating the signal with a resistor to the transmitter, then going through THAT pre amp, ends up being "better" than simply going mic level into the transmitter to begin with.

Robert

P.S.  Transmitters will clamp down on loud sticks enough to render them silent and useless, which happens often enough to be annoying, but since most folks don't use the clap as the primary syncing technique, then it rarely poses a problem.

[gabi]

Yes - The line level cable adds a resistor to bring the signal to mic level for the transmitter.  This is why I was asking if people used a mic level cable to the transmitter and turned it down all the way.  It seems, however, one cannot turn it down enough.  Then that begs the question about whether going through the MM1 pre amp, amplifying the signal to line level, then attenuating the signal with a resistor to the transmitter, then going through THAT pre amp, ends up being "better" than simply going mic level into the transmitter to begin with.

Robert

Actually, the Lectro transmitters have one pin assigned for high impedance, line level input which happens to be pin 5 as you can see on their PDF wiring sheet, fig.7:

http://www.lectrosonics.com/service/ServoBiasWiring.pdf#search=%22wiring%22

Now that wiring seems to force the transmitter limiters to work too soon. That is why I send you this wiring scheme suggested by Mr. Glen Trew which adds a 22K resistor before pin 5. Works for me.

http://www.trewaudio.com/audioflow/2009/03/17/lectro-line-level-input-cable-recommendation/

Seems to me to be the best gain structure for the MM1/UM400 combo.

Gabi

[RPSharman]

Actually, the Lectro transmitters have one pin assigned for high impedance, line level input which happens to be pin 5 as you can see on their PDF wiring sheet, fig.7:

http://www.lectrosonics.com/service/ServoBiasWiring.pdf#search=%22wiring%22

Now that wiring seems to force the transmitter limiters to work too soon. That is why I send you this wiring scheme suggested by Mr. Glen Trew which adds a 22K resistor before pin 5. Works for me.

http://www.trewaudio.com/audioflow/2009/03/17/lectro-line-level-input-cable-recommendation/

Seems to me as the best gain structure for the MM1/UM400 combo.

Gabi

Sorry.  Missed that bit about pin 5 input for line level, but the Lectro diagram shows a resistor in place on pin 5, which still makes me wonder about amplifying in the MM1 and attenuating the signal before the active part of the transmitter.

Robert

[gabi]

For me, using the MM1 before the transmitter is all about control of the gain structure and a great SD limiter  and preamp. It's much easier to ride the levels of the boom mic and it gives the boom op the best monitoring possible.

Gabi

[Guest Eric Lamontagne]

Let your ears do the talking at a local rental shop. Guaranteed you will leave with int in your pocket and then go and hunt for a travelers pouch to put it in with the TX.

Don't leave home without the MM1, especially when in the vicinity of gunfire or whispering actors. Which is ALL the time.

It works, Line Level cable, 'nuf said