Roll Sound

[Tom Visser]

http://roll-sound.com/

What do you think, useful resource or more of a primer for prospective sound dept persons or non-sound people who want to know more?  I looked at his credits, and it didn't seem he was an established mixer, although maybe he has more work than what is listed in IMDB.

[RPSharman]

I don't know about you, but one might want to think twice about buying a book from anyone showing an obscure 3-Ch mixer, a Betacam and a DAT in their demo pages on a 2010 copyright book.

Although the last screen shot does show top of the line Zaxcom stuff, it also illustrates a Lectrosonic IFB transmitter sending audio to old PR-72b Comtek receivers.

I am a fan of accuracy in illustration, so this just leaves me wondering how accurate everything else is.

Robert

[Roger Slater]

I notice from his 'Field Production ' set up,  that the DEVA is listed as a Multitrack machine, whereas the Cantar is only a Stereo machine......

[RPSharman]

I notice from his 'Field Production ' set up,  that the DEVA is listed as a Multitrack machine, whereas the Cantar is only a Stereo machine......

Well, that's because it LOOKS more like a DAT machine.

[Guest BobD]

Let me be perfectly clear...

Concerning,

ROLL SOUND INC.

Production Sound recording services....

Please do not confuse us with them .....

Roll Sound Inc. is, and has been, a functioning corporation in Los Angeles California for 25 years plus, and still going... Any reference to another business or company named as such, or any book of that name is "NOT US".

Just wanted to throw that out there.....  Thought it should be made clear and on the record so we are not confused with that individual... He may well be very nice, but, different people...Thanks... BD

[studiomprd]

I can, and will, shed some light on John Fielden, who has been an active member of the production sound community in Hawai'i for many, many years...

John was more active in ENG/EFP production in the 80's and 90's, until diabetes claimed one of his legs.

John also worked on truck gigs for the various broadcasters visiting Hawai'i, and the local trucks as well.  He is back to doing these gigs again.

While I have yet to see his book, I am looking forward to reviewing a copy for possible use in classes I teach, at least on the suggested further reading list.  I would not be surprised if the pictures he took are of equipment not his own, and for illustrative purposes, rather than actual working rigs of his own that he has recently taken out into the field. If the pictures come from various sources on Oahu, it is entirely possible for the examples to be less than perfect, and not always the newest, most expensive toys, as John is probably not acquiring such toys these days...So, in spite of some technical shortcomings, I'd expect that John has a lot of good information to offer, and I for one look forward to seeing his book.

And Bob, I suspect that John is not even aware of "Roll Sound Inc" here in SoCal. it appears he has acquired the roll-sound.com domain ...

more soon.

[Guest BobD]

John is working on a fix regarding the website name similarity... he is a nice guy....  Thanks for the help Senator...  Really...

I retract my prior agro post in it's entirety..

[jfielden]

Hi I am  John Fielden, Author of "RollSound!" A Practical Guide for Location Audio.  I would like to clarify a few items since I stirred up a small hornets nest.  

First the name thing, total missunderstanding and will be cleared up as soon as possibile.  I am not trying to take business away from anyone, in fact I hope to promote sound business.

Second, my qualifications.  I have been a free-lance sound engineer for 30 years and have worked from "50 First Dates to Zoolife".  I have worked over 2500 production days in some form of audio engineering.  I have mixed film from nagras to DATS, I have worked with 3 channel mixers to 120 channel digital Digico consoles. And have worked as an audio assistant for ESPN, NBC sports, ABC sports etc, on and on.  I do not have many movie credits because living in Hawaii the mixer is usually hired BEFORE they come here, but I have boomed many especially second unit.

Now the book.  This book is for novices and intermediate audio engineers.  If you are a working film recordist or an accomplished video mixer this book is not for you, unless you want to cross into a different field (i.e., film mixer to video production mixer).  This book mainly discusses applicational uses of equipment and understsanding film and video setups, (i.e., announcer booths, booming techniques, sports setups, tv shows etc.)

[jfielden]

I tried to stay away from discussing a particular piece of equipment since they are constantly changing and with a such a wide variety available.  I stuck to more the basics of connections and why you would do a particular setup.  As far as the Cantar goes, I was demonstrating the basic layout of field productions not focusung on the capabilities of a particular piece of equipment.  As for the sample pages of a DAT and 3 channel mixer, etc., these are Sample Pages.  "Don't give it away!" I tried to put non-relevant material as samples in case I get ripped off, it's no big deal.  If you read the Table of Contents you would see the more indepth material.

Anyway, that about covers it.  The book and ebook is available on soon-to-be-changed http://roll-sound.com. And also available on Amazon.com.

If you have any questions or concerns please contact me.  Thank you Mike M. for your input and letting me know about this forum.

John Fielden

[John Blankenship]

From glancing at the sample pages the book looks to be pretty well written, based on the book's focus and the market the writer is aiming it toward.  For a basic manual covering so many different types of setups, it presents an easy to understand -- but still fairly comprehensive -- view of how different professional audio gigs are handled.

A few little things like the two track Cantar jumped out at me, but if anyone here has ever tried to write a manual that no one could possibly misunderstand, you'd know how near to impossible that task is.

John B.

[soundtrane]

ah, that picture also shows Zaxcom Tx going into an Octopak, Lectro IFB going to Comteks, etc. When I saw it, i could not help thinking it's all a bit dubious and misdirecting. But maybe not...

-vin

[RPSharman]

I received a nice letter from John F.  It said pretty much what he wrote above.  Below was my response...

"John,

Sorry if my comments on JWsound were harsh.  On the internet, we sometimes forget the person behind the computer.

Being a sound mixer is something I am VERY passionate about.  I suppose it bothers me that anyone with a few bucks can buy a few bits of gear sufficient to record direct to camera and they can call themselves a sound mixer.  I love the work, yet sometimes can’t even find low budget stuff to play with in between projects, because someone who read a book has moved straight into mixing without any experience on a film set or working in another capacity in the sound department.  It is truly destroying our reputation and lowering the standards of what people expect, which in turn lowers the value of people who actually know what they are doing.

I feel that if someone is going to write  a book, the very least they could do is spend the time to make it 100% accurate.  Perhaps your book is very accurate, but it is disappointing that your illustrations are inaccurate.  If these pages are your representation of what’s inside, then you can understand my skepticism.

Sincerely,

Robert Sharman"

[Richard Ragon]

Being a sound mixer is something I am VERY passionate about.  I suppose it bothers me that anyone with a few bucks can buy a few bits of gear sufficient to record direct to camera and they can call themselves a sound mixer.  I love the work, yet sometimes can’t even find low budget stuff to play with in between projects, because someone who read a book has moved straight into mixing without any experience on a film set or working in another capacity in the sound department.  It is truly destroying our reputation and lowering the standards of what people expect, which in turn lowers the value of people who actually know what they are doing.

This is extremely well said Robert..

[Guest Ken Mantlo]

Being a sound mixer is something I am VERY passionate about.  I suppose it bothers me that anyone with a few bucks can buy a few bits of gear sufficient to record direct to camera and they can call themselves a sound mixer.  I love the work, yet sometimes can’t even find low budget stuff to play with in between projects, because someone who read a book has moved straight into mixing without any experience on a film set or working in another capacity in the sound department.  It is truly destroying our reputation and lowering the standards of what people expect, which in turn lowers the value of people who actually know what they are doing.

Sincerely,

Robert Sharman"

Weren't we all the new guy coming into a job classification causing a shortage of jobs for others at one time?  How can we move to mixer and say "OK guys, let's close the door, we have all the mixers we need now." ?  It is what it is.  Move over grandpa.

Post Script;

This was typed with the utmost love and respect and not in a mean spirit.  I'm learning that my posts don't read as I mean them.

[jfielden]

Thanks RVD, you got it!  The reason I wrote this book (besides my inability to trek through jungles anymore) is the fact that nowdays it seems if you have a new piece of equipment you can do audio, but they don't understand the theory. 

This book encompasses not only film sound (which setup-wise is one of the easiest, but great work) but for example, the understanding of what duties a video A2 or production Boom operator is expected to perform, or how to mic that high-school football game on a tight budget but with ESPN production desires or the basic concepts of the ins and outs of location audio (remember guys the pics in the layouts are just represenational,  they look better than a black box, so you will see a Zaxcom box into a Lectro receivers, it's not the gear that's being represented but the application).

This book is all about APPLICATION.  With actual line sheets and layouts for sports, variety and music shows it gives the reader a place to start creating their own audiory masterpiece!

Peace to all.

John

"Your eardrums are your career!  Take care of them.  In the course of your audio career, there will be plenty of times that an accidental loud blast of noise will seemingly puncture your eardrums, so keep your work audio at a nominal listening level...." Roll Sound pg.65

[Tom Visser]

Well, I deserve to be admonished for calling out someone's lack of credits, especially someone in my home market, without checking it out a little first.  I'm a newb to Hawaii, and our paths never crossed.  I think I'll pick up this book as I'm sure it will be a good read.

[studiomprd]

" I love the work, yet sometimes can’t even find low budget stuff to play with in between projects, because someone who read a book has moved straight into mixing without any experience on a film set or working in another capacity in the sound department. "

you can't blame the authors (including Tom Holman) for that... (or the schools, either)...

"the very least they could do is spend the time to make it 100% accurate"

without having read the book, perhaps it might be premature to say it is not accurate...  however, having known John for almost his entire career, I would  expect his book to be a good resource.  Having reviewed a lot of the books out there, 100% accuracy can sometimes be a moving target; in text books we often see unnatural mixes of equipment used for illustrative purposes... I suspect the entire context needs to be considered...

" Your anger at someone younger with less experience taking jobs from you, well welcome to the world, this has been going on for years. "

of course we have all experienced this... living in Hawai'i this is also compiunded by the big shows not even considering the local talent, no matter their experience, and I can vouch for John's having lots of experience... Also, living and working in Hawai'i required us all to be flexible, so we developed a broader range of experience...

"  I suppose it bothers me that anyone with a few bucks can buy a few bits of gear sufficient to record direct to camera and they can call themselves a sound mixer.  "

Hell: it bothers me that   anyone with a few bucks can buy a camcorder  and they can call themselves a DP, or, even worse, a filmmaker!

[RPSharman]

Post Script;

This was typed with the utmost love and respect and not in a mean spirit.  I'm learning that my posts don't read as I mean them.

Yes - so true.

I realize that my initial post was harsh.  I apologized for that.  I am not criticizing John's experience, only his "apparent" lack of research and/or accuracy in a book representing the field in which I consider myself a professional (as short-lived as it might be).  The book might be absolutely wonderful, I only questioned the judgment displayed by the sample pages.

BTW - I have reposted in "Who am I" thread regarding my experience.

Robert

[larry long]

Like Watching a Train Wreck

[John Blankenship]

Robert,

Have you noticed the irony yet?  It seems John F. is receiving some flack largely because of the equipment choices in his book.  How ironic it would be if he had shown a Mackie mixer as the hub for a cart setup.  It, too, would have probably drawn comment, however, I have it on good authority that there are accomplished professionals using this mixer to great success.

John B.

[John Blankenship]

Like Watching a Train Wreck

Perhaps that's a good thing since people are fascinated by train wrecks.

But, it reminds me more of a discussion -- then a new guy walks into the room.  People adjust and continue discussing.

John B.

[RPSharman]

Ugh... once again my emotions, although from a good place, have gotten the better of me.

I love my job.  I wish I could do it EVERY day.  I read books when I first wanted to get into sound, but it never occurred to me to start out as a department head.  I guess that's where I am frustrated.  As limited as my experience might have been before moving up, I worked hard to gather knowledge from anyone who would share it with me.  Many people in our wonderful community give of their knowledge freely.  It's one of the things that I love about being a sound guy.

One thing John wrote in his nice letter to me was that he was more afraid people would criticize him for revealing "trade secrets".  Giving up trade secrets is what we do here on an almost daily basis.  I think it's great.  If we can keep the standards high, then it can only help to improve our reputation as valuable contributors to the process, which I think has gradually been slipping.

Although you might not believe it, my "train" used to be much larger and created much bigger wrecks.  I continue to work hard to make it smaller, and I thank you all for calling me out what I am being an ass.

Robert

[jfielden]

I guess it really is true, "A picture is worth a thousand words".  Because this discussion is about the use of one pic in a diagram layout.  Which by the end of the week will become a moot point, since I am going to change the sample pages (add my production credentials) and yes replace the Cantar pic with a 2-channel DAT picture.

Yes I said DAT.  Give the mixer a break.  After spending all his money on a Zaxcom mixer, Deva and Zaxcom wireless, a divorce from his wife and baubles for his girlfriend that's all he can afford.  Smile.

But really, the only way to truly understand the book is to buy it and read it.  Either paperback or ebook.  Then if you don't like it or it doesn't meet expectations, return it.  Simple.

And of course, I like the free publicity and enjoy interacting with all of you.  But, because it really is only a book, in a very fickle industry we call sound engineering, all I can do is listen to what others have to say and apply what is useful.

And here is a question for the rest of you.  With the popularity of hi-end and cheap HD video cameras, is the inevitable demise of recording on a separate recorder (except for location multi-track) near?  Are all your jobs in jeopardy?  How will you adjust?

John

"Don't think it won't happen.  Because unknowingly it has already begun."

[Jeff Wexler]

Yes I said DAT.  Give the mixer a break.  After spending all his money on a Zaxcom mixer, Deva and Zaxcom wireless, a divorce from his wife and baubles for his girlfriend that's all he can afford.  Smile.

And here is a question for the rest of you.  With the popularity of hi-end and cheap HD video cameras, is the inevitable demise of recording on a separate recorder (except for location multi-track) near?  Are all your jobs in jeopardy?  How will you adjust?

John

I have stayed out of this discussion but I need to chime in here. DAT is dead. In my opinion there is no reason to discuss it beyond reference to its important and historical position in our industry. Just my opinion.

Regarding your second comment about the "camera" becoming the "recorder" you should read (or re-read) the lengthy posts here about this issue. Even with all technical issues aside, one of the major reasons for not allowing the CAMERA to be the main primary recording device is simple: it isn't a piece of equipment that is in YOUR HANDS. It is typically in the hands of one or more of the people that are in the Camera Department, not the Sound Department. If you want to expand the discussion to include other future possibilities, like centralized data storage that keeps all the data, image, audio, metadata, etc. in one place, that's a different story. That "one place" will not be a low cost digital still camera in the hands of a shooter who knows nothing about recording sound. I think our jobs are not in jeopardy unless we don't know what we're doing.

-  Jeff Wexler

[jfielden]

I totally agree with you Jeff about the sound not being in our hands if it is recording on camera only.  It is the one thing I hate about video recording, if the camera operator is not monitoring than the recorded sound can be completely different from your mixed audio. Of course there are the return feeds which do help somewhat.

But with that being said, I have seen in the last few years especially with the Red Camera, those who used to shoot film, now don't.  Agencys who used to like the film-look, now like the video-HD look, to the point hardly anyone here shoots film anymore.  They used to want backup audio, but no more.

So as went audio tape, and DAT eventually hard drives and recorders will become obsolete to due $$$ and the point of having their product immediately accessible.  I don't like it, but ultimately we are not in control of change.

John

ps.  thanks for letting me use your site to clarify my points,  and if I make any mistakes or unknowingly abuses, I ask for your forgiveness because I am quite new to this social media stuff.