Izen Ears Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 It's been a while since I was asked for a half day and I'd like to fish around for some standards. I just wrapped a short 4-day doc shoot, the last day was about 4 hours and they've asked me to bill them for a half day. Would that be 80% of a full day or 60% or what? The full day rate was pretty good, what sort of break would you all cut them? Happy Mardi Gras! Dan Izen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 hey dan, 80% because it is closer to 100 than 60. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Dan, I think I'd ask them what they expect. I'd explain that I don't normally have a half day rate because, given the unpredictable nature of filming, I can't really book the 2nd half of the day with another company. But, since they were good clients, I would want to be cooperative. I think I'd feel them out at 2/3 rather than 60%. At 80%, it might as well be a full day. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 " Technically there is no such thing as a "half-day" rate " actually the IA contract and some other unions do have half day rates, generally 6 hours pay for 4 hours max, no grace period, 4:01 goes to full day. often it is also portal to portal, and the contracts call it optional... but that isn't really this situation... I agree, if they booked you for the days, (which meant you could not even consider booking the other half day!) and finished early, well for a good, -aka regular-, client I'd give them a break at 2/3 for labor only. if you worked all the booked days, and they asked you to come an additional half day, and you are available, I might even do 2/3 for labor and equipment. If they asked you for an additional (full) day, then 2/3 for labor only. I only take 1/2 day gigs for today or tomorrow, as I've been bitten all to often; also, I have been bitten when I actually managed to have another half day (or late starting full day) and the first 'half day' went over...(I hate it when that happens!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Graff Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Hi Dan. Good advice and I'll add my two cents. In general, no half days and asking for it after the fact does seem a bit opportunistic. I will do half-days for good, long-term clients when it is a single interview or pick-up and is on very short notice (booked further in advance must be a full day). Must be less than 4 hours and I discount $100 off the ten-hour rate. No half-day on equipment rental. I agree with RVD to let your conscience be your guide. Cool people, good rate, etc.--sure! It's always wise to keep a good client happy. But I would go more toward 80%. ~PG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVS Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 In NZ a half day is under 5 hours and pays 60%....but as with a lot of these short days its quite possible to do 2 half days and even 3 in one day in this small compact city...morning,afternoon and evening ...but that is exceptional...but quite often 2 half days...usually very short notice TV stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I feel that if you can realistically rely on having the 2nd half of the day free to do something else, and they are good clients, then 60% of labor seems pretty reasonable, perhaps 75% for both labor and gear if it's lumped together. But I would want to know this up front. Your situation is delicate in that they are coming to you after the fact. I've never been asked to do a 3 1/2 day job, so that's an odd one. I feel that if they booked you for 4 days, then 4 days it is, especially since you were not informed of the "half day" up front. Good luck with your decision. We're all behind you! Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 75% for gear? I'm just curious how much the camera rental house charges for a half day of their gear. Do you think the grip truck rents at half price if only needed for the morning? Why do we let them do this to us? Let's make it simple. You offer a day rate... and then they can use you for as much of that day as they want. Laurence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 75% for gear? Laurence Some people lump labor and gear together. Just suggesting that 75% of that lump would seem reasonable, if you are willing to offer the 1/2 day rate. Otherwise I like the 100% gear and 60% labor others have suggested. But I agree, as a general rule, we really ought to stick to 100% of both. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobD Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 "But I agree, as a general rule, we really ought to stick to 100% of both." Robert Ought to...... ? A day is a day guys (and girls).... This lame idea should be cut off at it's head.... Here and now... I would laugh at the request... Unless as was said, it came from a client who ALWAYS pays proper rates... then maybe... Like Nancy said, just say no.... If you can't be on a full day's job, because you are doing a half, well.... there you have it... even if no full day job exists... It's the concept... The only time this is excepted is on a short travel day of lets say 3 hours, sometimes they will ask for a half, but a shoot day? never... Things may be different on a three person video crew, but an actual show.... no, no, no,...... Slowly the noose is placed over the subject's head...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 When someone asks me about a half day, my response is that, "Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a half day." If they need an explanation, then I mention that by the time I've prepped gear, driven to the location, done the job, packed back up, then returned to the studio, I would seldom be able to do the same thing for another client -- especially, if I don't have a hard "out time" from job number one. I've lost gigs because of this, but not many, and usually not the ones I'd want. Most pros understand this position so little explanation is necessary. However, having said that, there are sometimes special circumstances and my clients have voiced their appreciation when flexibility has been required. I had one regular client ask up front for 5 and a half days with a short day on Saturday, the final day of the shoot. It was a reasonable request and I accommodated them. There turned out to be some overtime hours during the week and I was on my way home early on Saturday -- a good week with stories to tell. In another instance, a regular client offered a rate up front that was reasonable and fair for the two or three hours prep followed by a ten minute uplink to a sports center show. A big plus on an uplink such as this is that you know for certain what the "hard out" time is. So, the short answer is: No half days -- but there are exceptions. John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Hmm, thanks for all the great responses. I think I'm going to explain that I half days are nice, but that billing wise a day rate is a day rate. I'll do 80%. It's only my second gig with the client and I doubt they're going to come back anytime soon... I'll let you know how it turnes out! Dan Izen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris R Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I don't have many issues taking half days when asked as long as its booked in advance. It would never be acceptable in my eyes to be on the job and because you wrap early be asked to only charge a half day. In my market its actually a pretty regular request to do a half day and at this point if I decline and insist on a full they would just move on to the next guy. I charge 75% or so and full kit.. so in reality the $ is such a small difference I actually LIKE knowing I'm going to have a nice short day and enjoy the rest of the day off. On top of that its not uncommon for me to pull a double dip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I would make a good client happy, but educate them as well. I always say that this conversation should of taken place before the shoot. The rest is your call. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Good info here that I've had to deal with myself lately. I have a good solid client that has given me some great opportunities, (over seas shoots for up to two weeks at a time, paid flights/meals etc..etc..). I was asked about a few slow days could be billed as 1/2 days, I actually did 50%, but only because of the good reputation of keeping my client and what opportunities I've received from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 " they can use you for as much of that day as they want. " up to 10 hours... after that, it costs extra... " only because of the good reputation of keeping my client " usually glad to take great care of the good, regular clients, I feel like I might owe them the courtesy... the no budget sleaze-balls, however, who want the favor from me first get nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Ha ha, I did know in advance but I was also told "flat rate" which to me means no overtime no undertime. I ended up getting 66%, considering it was a very good rate for a doc I was fine. Thanks for the input, I think 75% should be the standard! Dan Izen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 " "flat rate" which to me means no overtime no undertime. " sounds like someone wanted it to be 'no overtime if we go long, but, but if we go short...' earlier I noted: day rates are for the specified day, usually 10 hours, with OT after that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel McIntosh Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 I think this topic was discussed here some time ago. If negotiating in advance my typical (snark) response for a half day bid is, "You'll probably want to go with my full day rate, as my half day rate is $100 a day more." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 ...If negotiating in advance my typical (snark) response for a half day bid is, "You'll probably want to go with my full day rate, as my half day rate is $100 a day more." It's funny how great minds think alike (or, is it, "grated minds"). When asked how much I charge if I use THIER gear, I say $100 more for dealing with equipment that I haven't personally tweaked, checked out, and calibrated. John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clacker Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just read this post after being "blind-sided" by a relatively good client offering a half-day rate for a gig tomorrow. I had been holding it since last Friday, knew it was going to be a short day, but there had been no indication that they were looking for reduced rates. I accepted it with conditions, but still felt dirty afterwards. Feel a bit better and a lot more in-the-know after reading these posts. Thanks guys! Half-day rates can be demoralizing, but information is power;) My only question is do we need to ask clients every time now if they are planning to surprise us with half days? Ha! Happy Monday, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Asking for a half day (rate) when the job is booked in one thing. Asking for a half-day rate on a "bought" day on the day-of or after I've turned down other work is another, and asking for the half-day rate AFTER the job is something else again. The first situation is a normal biz deal--take it or leave it according to your own standards and who you want to keep happy. Turning a full "booked" day into a half day is something I would squawk about--I could have had that day free for someone who wanted to pay the full rate--I make it clear that this is not the deal we made. Changing the deal after the job is very not kosher to me--it would have to be a client I really wanted to keep happy for me to go for that. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 What Philip says... " do we need to ask clients every time now if they are planning to surprise us with half days? " NO, if they don't ask for it when they book you, it is their problem... If they do ask, I do not book 1/2 days unless it is for "today or tomorrow" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeheel Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 "When asked how much I charge if I use THIER gear, I say $100 more for dealing with equipment that I haven't personally tweaked, checked out, and calibrated." I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only one who says that! The only time when I'm happy to use someone else's gear is when close proximity to salt water is involved... cheers, Brent C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugstar Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 i was pencilled for a day last week for a client i've only worked for once before, the day before the shoot they called and asked if i would do a half day rate. i refused, but offered to drop my mileage(only about £30, but they didnt know that) as a gesture of goodwill. as it turned out, there was only about 90 minutes between loading the gear in to location and loading it out again and i felt like maybe i SHOULD have cut them some slack, but then i mentioned the half day offer in passing to the producer and she was FURIOUS that someone in her office had tried to stiff me on a job that had plenty budget to not need to do that. pleasantly surprising! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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