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Stereo MS Boom pole?


Blackdawg

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I regularly use my MKH30/40 kit in a Cyclone fitted to a small (carry-on pack size) tripod for nature/city ambiences. One of the features that attracted me to the tripod I selected (beside the low weight and form factor) was it having a removeable leg that can be used as a monopod or boom pole. It is perfect for being able to reach a bit higher/lower to catch water/tree noises or get closer to moving insects.

 

The downside is the weight and bulk of the cyclone/microphone combo. For my use case it is not an issue, as I am not booming all day, and rarely for more than a few minutes. The Cyclone, tripod and recorder all fit in a single backpack and are ready to take on the variable weather conditions in my 4 season world. Having tried to carry a variety of solutions to suit the conditions, I settled on the one, albeit bulky and heavy, configuration to insure I can setup and capture quickly and easily.

 

 

 

 

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Currently working with ORTF with 3 mics, Sennheiser MKH 8040 at Left/Right and Sennheiser MKH 8050 as middle. Windshield is from Cinela Albert. We are trying to have it in all scenes, plus wild tracks for atmos. Usually point at direction - axis where the camera look (like being "ears"). So far so good and sounds nice. Wish if SD 633 had the option to link trim (not faders) for the three channels input, because now it's a little "guessing" if it's exactly the same level.

 

An alternative opinion :)

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I run a DPA4017 and an ATE308 in an MS rig for a lot of my documentary work. It allows me to grab stereo ambience quickly during B-Roll as well as camera perspective stereo in wider shots. I just did a couple days on a choir doc, and they would frequently start singing in random places. So it was amazing to just flip to stereo, stick my mic in the air and grab a decent sounding stereo recording.

 

Not how I'd mic a choir in more controlled environment, but it really adds to the immersion in those scenes

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I used to have a client that required a lot of stereo work… I ended up finding a workflow where I had a normal boom mic with an MS mic just above, so I could easily switch between mono and stereo.

 

I was using it often enough that I had a boompole wired with 5 pin to have for those shoots.

 

Audio post DID find it easier to have me switch between a stereo mic and mono mic, without using MS, but out in the field, it really was easier to have a single setup that did mono AND stereo. 

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12 hours ago, ronmac said:

One of the features that attracted me to the tripod I selected (beside the low weight and form factor) was it having a removeable leg that can be used as a monopod or boom pole. It is perfect for being able to reach a bit higher/lower to catch water/tree noises or get closer to moving insects.

Ron, I think you may have detailed your tripod in the past but could you tell us again here what it is? cheers!

 

12 hours ago, VASI said:

Currently working with ORTF with 3 mics

So, Vasi, have you a single cable 7 pin running or a 3+5 or 3+3+3?

 

Presently in Corfu by the way and might well fly back via Athens in a couple of weeks. Must try to meet up if that's the case!!

 

8 hours ago, Richard Nault said:

… I ended up finding a workflow where I had a normal boom mic with an MS mic just above, so I could easily switch between mono and stereo.

[...]

Audio post DID find it easier to have me switch between a stereo mic and mono mic, without using MS, but out in the field, it really was easier to have a single setup that did mono AND stereo. 

Being a post sound person I like to have a clear idea when MS is being used and how: whether separate M and S tracks (generally preferable) or matrixed. If the former, and I understand one's workflow (of 'sometimes' MS), I would be perfectly happy to receive tracks where the M track was always present and the S track was often mute or blank: that's easy to understand and work with.

 

Jez Adamson

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20 hours ago, VASI said:

Currently working with ORTF with 3 mics, Sennheiser MKH 8040 at Left/Right and Sennheiser MKH 8050 as middle. 


Strictly speaking this isn’t ORTF, but I get why you are calling it that. I am curious though, why for movie/tv audio you would choose to use a middle mic like that, as your dialog usually already sits in the middle. Wouldn’t actual ORTF be more suitable?

 

On doc work I usually work with an MS boom, based on a Schoeps rig. 
on the one hand it makes it much easier to quickly record ambiences and so on without needing to change anything. While camera sets up I‘ll often walk around and try to record something. 
I will always record both mics although I don’t think a stereo rig on a constantly moving boom is particularly useful. The s mic can also help getting dialog between two people left and right from the mic if you find you can’t move the main mic between them quickly enough. Just let

each one speak into either side of the 8. 

 

for scripted work I don’t use a stereo boom at all, but I will sometimes use a stationary ambience mic, usually ORTF as I prefer that over MS for pure ambience

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11 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

Ron, I think you may have detailed your tripod in the past but could you tell us again here what it is? cheers!

 

Being a post sound person I like to have a clear idea when MS is being used and how: whether separate M and S tracks (generally preferable) or matrixed. If the former, and I understand one's workflow (of 'sometimes' MS), I would be perfectly happy to receive tracks where the M track was always present and the S track was often mute or blank: that's easy to understand and work with.

 

Jez Adamson

Jez, I recently purchased this tripod as a compact support for my MS Cyclone kit while travelling via public transit. It isn't a particularly demanding task for a tripod, so low weight and basic functionality (not to mention low cost) was all I required.  It was the best cost/features/build quality I could find at that time. I would have purchased the CF version, but it wasn't in stock and only slightly lower weight. 

 

https://www.henrys.com/vanguard-veo-3-go-235ab-aluminum-tripod-with-ballhead/5637233136.p?color=Black&style=New

  • Quote

    The VEO 3GO 235AB 23mm Aluminium Travel Tripod is an ultra-compact and lightweight aluminium travel tripod with an Arca Swiss compatible ball head, a leg that converts to a monopod (which can double as a selfie/vlogging stick), a smartphone adaptor and a Bluetooth remote shutter trigger that offers the maximum versatility for mirrorless camera kits, DSLR camera kits and even smartphones.

 

I always record MS as separate tracks, for exactly the reasons you state. 

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5 hours ago, Constantin said:


Strictly speaking this isn’t ORTF, but I get why you are calling it that. I am curious though, why for movie/tv audio you would choose to use a middle mic like that, as your dialog usually already sits in the middle. Wouldn’t actual ORTF be more suitable?

 

I can't speak for Vasi but I took his 3 mic setup to be probably a fixed stationary one where usually the 2 channel (ortf) of the 8040s was recorded/used/chosen and occasionally the mono forward facing channel 8050 if there was something interesting in front. Rather than a 3-channel ambience. But my interpretation is no doubt mistaken!! 

 

51 minutes ago, ronmac said:

Jez, I recently purchased this tripod as a compact support for my MS Cyclone kit while travelling via public transit. It isn't a particularly demanding task for a tripod, so low weight and basic functionality (not to mention low cost) was all I required.  It was the best cost/features/build quality I could find at that time. I would have purchased the CF version, but it wasn't in stock and only slightly lower weight. 

 

https://www.henrys.com/vanguard-veo-3-go-235ab-aluminum-tripod-with-ballhead/5637233136.p?color=Black&style=New

 

Thank you Ron

 

51 minutes ago, ronmac said:

I always record MS as separate tracks, for exactly the reasons you state. 

 

And thank you again from post!!

 

Jez

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23 hours ago, Constantin said:


Strictly speaking this isn’t ORTF, but I get why you are calling it that. I am curious though, why for movie/tv audio you would choose to use a middle mic like that, as your dialog usually already sits in the middle. Wouldn’t actual ORTF be more suitable?

 

On doc work I usually work with an MS boom, based on a Schoeps rig. 
on the one hand it makes it much easier to quickly record ambiences and so on without needing to change anything. While camera sets up I‘ll often walk around and try to record something. 
I will always record both mics although I don’t think a stereo rig on a constantly moving boom is particularly useful. The s mic can also help getting dialog between two people left and right from the mic if you find you can’t move the main mic between them quickly enough. Just let

each one speak into either side of the 8. 

 

for scripted work I don’t use a stereo boom at all, but I will sometimes use a stationary ambience mic, usually ORTF as I prefer that over MS for pure ambience

 

Hi Constantin,

 

The middle channel is for option to post production. It has already the ORTF (8040) available, so the middle channel is something extra to play the post production and do it whatever wants. We don't play it so often when we have dialogues scenes; since require a 3rd person (we are two) to operate it. It's something new as workflow for me as well as for the PSM; so we are "investigate" it and waiting feedback from post production.

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On 10/16/2022 at 10:11 AM, VASI said:

 

Hi Constantin,

 

The middle channel is for option to post production. It has already the ORTF (8040) available, so the middle channel is something extra to play the post production and do it whatever wants. We don't play it so often when we have dialogues scenes; since require a 3rd person (we are two) to operate it. It's something new as workflow for me as well as for the PSM; so we are "investigate" it and waiting feedback from post production.

Ah ok, I get it. It’s just that I personally consider the middle mic a waste of time and effort. And, I used to do this a lot as well, with pute ORTF, and I utilised a Zaxcom 742 with a stereo cone. Just put the mic somewhere off set for a good ambience track. Just… make sure no one wanders off with your mic

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