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Ok Brain Trust , Riddle me this....


larry long

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Here is part of an email from my post super on an upcoming show.

"Did you get the Channel assignment that would be most helpful to our Post Facility and our Editor along with the specs?

(-20db and sampling frequency is 48 khz at 29.97 fps Non-Drop)."

I questioned the 29.97nd tc and she answered that they were transfering to 24p tape and required this TC. This is the first I've ever heard about 29.97 for film. We are shooting super 35, 3 perf.

Anyone have any insight into this before I talk with transfer and post about it?

thanks ya'll,

LL

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I am certainly NOT the expert on all the varieties of TC but it does seem odd to request anything other than the standard 30 fps ND timecode when shooting standard 35 mm film (any aspect ratio). If the post supervisor is requesting this I guess it is something you will have to do, but I would in a kindly manner request a more complete explanation: for example, did this request come from someone or some facility that has actually tested such a workflow, etc.

On the issue of TRACK assignment it is nice that they are inquiring about that (actually it is nice that you are talking to anyone prior to the shoot) and my standard answer (which is stated on the sound reports, on the label on the box, and on my memo to editorial) that Track 1 is always considered the main production track (which people like to call the "mix track" these days) and all other tracks will be properly logged and identified, scene by scene, as to what can be expected to find there. This focuses everyone on TRACK 1 and I like that because it definitely suits my style of working. If there are some questions like "why can't Amy always be on Track 4?" I explain that it is the nature of the work, some aspects of which are impossible to determine before shooting commences, that make it impossible to pre-determine track assignments beyond what I have just stated: Track 1 is the main production track and ALL the other tracks, when used, will have something hopefully of value on them, and this will be documented on the day.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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Jeff,

Yea I'm spooked by the 29.97.

this is baically my reply

"I will be using the DEVA 2 , that writes BWF poly, or mono to a DVD Ram formatted FAT 16. I'll keep the show on the Hard Drives until we feel confident that everything jives.

I was not planning to actually run a backup deck just have the DAT handy on the truck although I will run it if need be.

I never received post or editorial spec or requirements.

I usually record -20 db, 48khz, 30fnd and use smart slates jammed to TOD TC with a 5 second preroll.

  I noticed you had 29.97 fps in those specs? The only time I have ever recorded other than 30 ndf was PAL.

  I generally record 1 mono mix track for transfer of dailies on channel 1, then split out other tracks for editorial as marked on the sound report."

I don't really want any ISO tracks. I will if I'm having issues or it's 2 cams looking at different things. I would rather deliver a mix only. Maybe I'm a tard and I'm just not conforming to the present technology, but I like to mix for picture.

Thanks Jeff

and though it's late to say it, I like your site and much prefer this to newsgroups. Nice forum with lots of interest and many talented folks, I'm so happy to have a brain trust of sound guys to bounce off of.

thanks,

Larry

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There are lots of new edit scenarios around now that don't involve and pull up or pull down, so I could see them wanting

29.97.  Years ago there was a brief vogue for shooting commercials @ 29.97 fps film--for those we used 29.97 TC on our TC Nagras.  Nowadays I have several clients who shoot 23.976 HD video, so we do 23.976 TC for them on NLRs (BWF).  There was a thread about this on RAMPS recently in which we were advised to do 29.97 TC for 23.976 HD shoots, but we've done several 23.976 shoots now for 23.976 FCP edits, and that frame rate seems to serve us best.  I should say that these shoots are RECORD-RUN TC, and so are set up a bit differently than the free-run TC Hollywood-Burbank model.

Philip Perkins

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Hi Larry,

The only 29.97NDF I've done has been to straight video or to cross jam 23.98 to 29NDF FOR HD. I'd re-ask just to make sure and then it's on the post supervisor to own that decision. They may have their reasons and I don't think anyone would take issue with a querry of "are you sure about that" when an unusual request is made.

Scott Harber

Here is part of an email from my post super on an upcoming show.

"Did you get the Channel assignment that would be most helpful to our Post Facility and our Editor along with the specs?

(-20db and sampling frequency is 48 khz at 29.97 fps Non-Drop)."

I questioned the 29.97nd tc and she answered that they were transfering to 24p tape and required this TC. This is the first I've ever heard about 29.97 for film. We are shooting super 35, 3 perf.

Anyone have any insight into this before I talk with transfer and post about it?

thanks ya'll,

LL

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Just out of curiosity....I had once worked with a mixer that about 100% of the time , when we would shoot outside, even if the boom was on the frame line - on a close up, still pump the radio mic the actor would have on to " fill in " the track . Any mixers thoughts on that ?

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Just out of curiosity....I had once worked with a mixer that about 100% of the time , when we would shoot outside, even if the boom was on the frame line - on a close up, still pump the radio mic the actor would have on to " fill in " the track . Any mixers thoughts on that ?

If it sounded good, great.  I usually have a lot of comb filtering happen when I try that--one splits the track and lets post decide on the mix.

Philip Perkins

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Guest tourtelot

Chrisboom-  If the boom was within spittin' distance to the lav, post HAD to pick one or the other.  Mixing the two together for "fill" would have been so "phasey" that it would have never been able to be used.  Sounds like insecurity. Make the call and live or die! Most times, I will fill an exterior lav with some OH pointed off into a "neutral corner" so that my lavs doesn't sound like shit.  Oh did I say that?  I mean, "too close up for the camera perspective." <g>

D.

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