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Lectro SRa recievers for bag use.. revisited


Derek H

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When I was on the HDX, with the knobs cranked up all the way, I couldn't get my tone to hit the -20 mark.  But I think there is a setting on the HDX to change your line level from +4 to -10.

Anyone have experience with the HDX and the SR, not using it in the slot?

I've used the SR's (not a's) with the HDX cameras and I've never had an issue with getting the tone up to -20 reference level.  Was your output on the SRa turned fully up for line level or just to 0db?

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I've used the SR's (not a's) with the HDX cameras and I've never had an issue with getting the tone up to -20 reference level.  Was your output on the SRa turned fully up for line level or just to 0db?

Even with the level on the SR's turned up to +5dB, I couldn't get the tone from my mixer up to -20 dBFS on the camera.  The tone from my mixer was turning the -20 LED just green on the SMQV therefore leaving the about 20 dB on the transmitters to fully deviate when I get levels on my mixer above the 0 dBu mark.

I could get the tone up to -20 dB by turning the audio level on the SMQVs up (so that the -20 LED just turns red) but then that eliminates the abilities on the SMQVs to fully deviate and anything over 0 dBu on my mixer is pretty easily compressed by the transmitters.

Again, this was going into the XLRs on the back of the HDX.

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I have limited experience with the SRa receivers, but it didn't leave me desperate to buy a set. I normally use 411's, but a cameraman friend had a very specific requirement for a job which needed older 411's rather than his fancy new SRa's, so we swapped for a month, and in that month I had more RF problems than I can remember having for a long time, I also didn't like that fact that you couldn't power off individual channels, on a long day, running 4 411's you know you can maximise battery life by powering down one's you're not using, you don't get that luxury with SRa's. Sure, they're small, light, have locking power connectors, etc etc, but I'm happy with my current kit for now, I breathed a sigh of relief when I got my own kit back!

were your 411s and his SR on the same block?

I feel like block choice is a huge factor in results. I've done tons of work with 401s and even some 201s. Sometimes mixes with 211 or 411 RXs and the tracking doesn't always seem to be the magic bullet if there are problems.

I'm also considering getting an SR for bag use, so I'm interested in what people say their field experiences have been. I've only used them as camera hops, and been happy with them for that.

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P -Did

Your transmitter gain is set too low for the hop scenario in my experience. I usually turn my transmitters up until the -10db light comes on and then back off a fraction until it goes off. Thats enough headroom if signals through your mixer are peaking at roughly between +10 and +12dbFS. The -20dB light on the TX should occasionally come on.

I have used the SR's for camera hop receivers on the HDX900 for 2 months on a show in New York and we did have issues. Firstly in the slot we had some strange grounding issues so ended up using them in saddle bags externally. Also having 2 cameras and 2 sound guys in close proximity was a problem. We coordinated frequencies carefully according to Lectro charts and scans on the locations, but if the other mixer came closer to my camera than I was I would often get drop outs on one channel. We were using UM400A's.

I've never seen behaviour like that with 411's so my advice would be if you work in an RF rich environment and often in multi-camera situations or at events where alot of other sound mixers may be transmitting close by, then get 411's over the SR.

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I own an SRa and a 411a in block 26. Recently I did a job where I rented a friends 401 of the same block in order to come up with 2 sets of hops, and was able to test them all side by side on multiple occasions. Just going by RF scans, the 401 would perform about 60% as well as the 411a, and the SRa about 90%...pretty good. Incidentally, in mixmode my SRa trumps the RF rejection of my 411a by about 10%.

I purchased my SRa on a whim because it seemed liked a lot of Rx bang for my buck, and because it's size, weight, and power usage make it a good hops choice for small cams such as the EX1, HVX, etc.

I've been fairly happy with the RF performance in this block, but what would make me reconsider purchasing more SRa's are the frequency assignment issues and operational ergonomics... It's a pain in the butt to work with multiple Tx's when you've gotta keep your freqs spaced just so... If you travel run-and-gun to a hostile RF environment mid-shoot, you can't just dial one or two systems to the next available freq in your group... you've got to rethink the whole shebang.

The operational ergonomics and freq spacing requirements of the SRa make it impractical for use on large cast reality shows where dialing in freqs on the fly is necessary.

I do, however, think the Octopack with SRa's could present a powerful, economical, and space-concious solution for drama work.

BTW, I normally go Line in at +05 when using hops, irreguardless of model. Those of you who use Mic in, I'd like to hear more about your reasoning. I've choosen Line as my standard method because I don't like to rely on the camera's mic amplification/gain to get solid levels. I'm afraid of raising the noise floor and the amplification of tape mechanisms, etc... I'm open to persuasive arguments though... (or maybe this should be a new thread)

-Travis Breitenbach

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"  "

when I started out there was no changing frequencies, just changing units...

no sweat!

intermod is physics, and frequency coordination is part of the deal...

and since multiple models (and makes) are available, you can acquire and use whatever best suit your style and needs...

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After five months with 12 cast using the Lectro SR's in the bag w/Sound Devices 552's and Lectro SR's on the camera's I disagree. We had 3 crews and not one complaint from them or Post.

Hm, how was everything coordinated? Was it fairly controlled? I'm assuming you had 2x SRa's in each bag. Within each SRa Rx you're supposed to have your freqs spaced by 4 steps in the group. What happens when you've got, say, 8 cast members mic'ed and running loose on set, and a cast member suddenly walks into the room wearing 3,D and you're only open RX channel happens to be sitting next to 4,0 on that same SRa?
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@ Scott - Interesting article in P3, thanks for sharing that.  It's good to hear that the SRs proved to be very solid for you.  I'm curious as to if you were going in line or mic level to the Sony EX3's.

@ Travis - What I heard about cameras like the EX1 and the HVX was that when imputing line level into them, they are simply just putting a resistor in the path of the signal, therefore not really making a difference if you go line or mic level anyway.  I could be completely wrong on that since I haven't been able to research this for myself.

Anyone out there who might know this, feel free to chime in.

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Sorry Scott, didn't realize you already posted that :)  It seems that you have quite a bit of experience with the SRs.  Is there a specific way you like to set them up with tone levels, the UM400s, and say something like the EX3?

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line level wiring:

gnd to pin 1

line to pin 5

pin 4 jumped to pin 1 to kill the servo bias.

pin 2&3 N/C

insert 20k resistor in series with pin 5 @ ta5 side

I was actually using the Lectro cables MC-41's outlined here:

http://www.gnarlywireless.com/lectrosonicsweb/manuals/CORDS.pdf

They are set for mic level into the transmitters, but I assume the rest that you mentioned would be the same as far as the transmitters.  I'm also using the SMQVs, which I think Lectro recommends the servo bias wiring.

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  • 8 months later...

Found this interesting.

I was on a shoot today.  I had 2 411a's and an SRa in the bag.  Doing a sit down interview, and I decided to setup the boom on a stand run an xlr and sit in the other room.  Space was tight and they were shooting with 3 5D's and the camera guy was annoying me.  (The Douche couldn't put the camera down, he actually continued shooting through lunch, really annoying).  Anyway, I was using one of the 411a's for the lav, and immediately got hits when we started.  I turned on the other 411 and the SRa, tuned them in, and looked at what the rf was doing on them.  SRa was solid, while the 411's were jumping around a bit.  So I switched over to the SRa.  No hits for the rest of the interview.  I had the SRa in ratio mode just in case anyone was wondering.  I might get another, just to make the bag lighter.  Maybe send the 411's out for servicing.

Jason Hemmerlin

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I used two SRa's in a bag with 552 on a show over several weeks last fall.  I was coordinated with another mixer running the same blocks but he was running with four 411s.  My bag was significantly lighter, however, he would get better range and less RF gack when we compared tuned mics.   

We were shooting in an auto parts yard with a lot of metal around, and also an airport runway less than a mile away...fun times.

I've been using a Zaxcom hop, he a sennheiser hop.  My Zaxcom bleeds RF even with the filter antenna, Senns are clean.

I would say the SRa's are good 90% of the time but I've decided to go back to the 411's with the front end tracking.

I also agree with the others in that the time and ease of tuning leaves a lot to be desired.  Why Lectro can't use their top of the line components in a dual receiver is curious.

-Joe

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  • 2 months later...

I am working with 12 sr at the moment and even though I am very happy with the convenience of using sr I had situations where SR range was horrible. Open space in a casino 150 ft and it starts breaking up.

Even Sennheiser G3s have better range.

Also another complaint is when I attach the SR to a hot shoe the screen is upside down and a little strange to operate.

I used two SRa's in a bag with 552 on a show over several weeks last fall.  I was coordinated with another mixer running the same blocks but he was running with four 411s.  My bag was significantly lighter, however, he would get better range and less RF gack when we compared tuned mics.   

We were shooting in an auto parts yard with a lot of metal around, and also an airport runway less than a mile away...fun times.

I've been using a Zaxcom hop, he a sennheiser hop.  My Zaxcom bleeds RF even with the filter antenna, Senns are clean.

I would say the SRa's are good 90% of the time but I've decided to go back to the 411's with the front end tracking.

I also agree with the others in that the time and ease of tuning leaves a lot to be desired.  Why Lectro can't use their top of the line components in a dual receiver is curious.

-Joe

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I get a LOT of RF into my SR's (block 23) when using my Zax hop (high 700's with filter antenna mounted on my back). Range is reduced to almost an unusable amount. Is anyone using a similar setup, any way to improve this?

I had a similar setup, Block 24 SRa in the bag with a block 25 Zaxcom QRX100. I found physically moving the Zaxcom as far away as possible from the SRa helped. The remote antennae located up on the shoulder helped too, but in the end I found the situation impossible to work with and swapped my SRa out for 2 x 411a. MUCH better. It was either lose the Zaxcom or shell out a couple grand for some new Rx, and I wasn't about to lose the Zaxcom...

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Rado, Jason,

You're sort of asking for trouble running hops of any brand so close to receivers in the same block.  You'd likely have the same problem with 411s too.  I think it should be considered a "best practice" to leave at least 1 empty block between a Tx and an Rx in the bag. 

While I'm impressed that the 411's squashed the RF spray issue, it is kind of annoying that the Zax Tx'es have such spray problems in the first place.  I wonder what the results would be with QRX100's in the bag, with similar block (and physical) spacing.

I only have lectro 3 to 6 sr in the bag:

2 BLock 21

2 BLock 24

2 BLock 25

2 Block 21  smqv for hops that are on the top of my harness. If I put them close to the block 21 sr they start just cutting off.

In the case below, you should probably just turn the SR upside down! I'm guessing that you're using yours with the wrong battery sled for this particular application, but they are available with the battery contacts facing up or down.  I elected to buy mine in the "up" position for that reason.  Link to SR accessories here.

Also another complaint is when I attach the SR to a hot shoe the screen is upside down and a little strange to operate.

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With respect to the Zaxcom RF bleed issue, I'm using a setup right now with two SRa's in a bag and recently picked up a Zaxcom ZFR100 to use as a backup recorder (with the STA150). Even though the ZFR100 has no transmitter function at all, I'm STILL seeing plenty of RF bleed in my SRa's. Enough to cause them to display that "check freq" message. The only fix I've found so far is to get the ZFR100 far enough away by putting it up on the shoulder strap of the bag, but that is certainly an annoying way to operate.

I don't understand why a flash-based recorder with no transmitter is leaking RF. Where is it coming from? Is there any fix, either on my end or Zaxcom's?

I could try switching to 411a's but the whole point of this setup is to have the smallest, lightest rig possible, and for that I love the SRa.

Rob

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