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Wireless: "If I were start again, I'd go with..."


John Dombroski

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"If I were to do it all again today, I'd go with something other than Lectro (...Sound Devices A-10, Shure Axient, Wisycom, Sony DWX...), but alas, I bought-in so long ago and now I'm stuck..."

 

I've heard this sentiment a bunch lately, in forums and in conversation with mixers more experienced than myself. As someone who's just starting to build (currently dreaming of / saving-up for) my wireless kit from scratch, I'd love to know what wireless ecosystem(s) would you go with if you were building your kit anew today, and why?

 

Note: So far I've built my kit from 98% used gear, and I've expected that's just the way it's going to have to be, at least for a few years... assuming the only way I'll affordably/realistically be able to start stepping up my wireless game (if not renting) is by finding a couple used Blk19/20 411a's/SRB/SRC's, and whatever wideband Lectro A1 Tx's I can find at good secondhand prices — especially since it seems like more established folks are starting to sell-off their old lectro's for the new digital kits. *But some of those digital kits aren't too much more expensive than the inflated used prices currently on the market...

 

hmmmm...

 

Side question/dread: Do you think "buy once, cry once" still applies to wireless in this economy, at the rate tech is advancing and as companies hop aboard the terrible avid/adobe/avarice train, requiring subscriptions/big fees for software upgrades in one's "own" hardware?

 

[edited for clarity]

 

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5 hours ago, listening and learning said:

"If I were to do it all again today, I'd go with something other than Lectro (...Sound Devices A-10, Shure Axient, Wisycom, Sony DWX...), but alas, I bought-in so long ago and now I'm stuck..."

 

Note: So far I've built my kit from 98% used gear

 

It is similar for me too, over the years I'm mostly purchased secondhand Lectrosonics (although, sometimes purchased new or near new Lectrosonics). 

 

And I think that is absolutely the right decision. Buy up secondhand Lectrosonics! As historically (i.e. back in the 2000's or 2010's, which is likely the vintage of any gear you'd be buying secondhand) then Lectrosonics was absolutely king. And leading the pack. 

 

It makes a lot of sense to buy that equipment, if that is the era you're looking at. (i.e. secondhand)

 

But if buying brand new in the 2020's? That's trickier... I feel Lectrosonics has fallen off the pace, and has let the competition catch up (and even go past them).  So maybe I won't buy any more Lectrosonics in the future? 

 

However... Lectrosonics is still keeping in place their awesome backwards compatibility! Thus I can see myself buying one more piece of Lectrsonics gear next year: the Lectrosonics DSR4! Really looking forward to it, and I hope the user reviews of it turn out to be awesome. 

(oh, and maaaybe I'll buy a Lectrosonics UCR411/UCR401 blk22 or Lectro LR B1, if I see a good deal on it secondhand. But otherwise I see my Lectrosonics collection as fairly "complete", and I'll just be getting as much extra lifespan out of it as I can. I've got over a dozen channels of Lectrosonics, I don't need more. Unless it is bringing something special to the table, like the DSR4 quad receiver)

 

But going forward I can see myself very gradually and slowly transitioning to another system. (in no rush whatsoever though, as Lectrosonics Digital Hybrid is still very good! I'll get many more years out of them)

 

First step will be switching over my boom to be fully digital booms. As for years I've been using a Sound Devices MM1 sending line level into a Lectro Digital Hybrid bodypack transmitter. (for the Boom Ops I've got 2x MM1 preamps, and one MP1 preamp) As I feel this gets the absolutely best possible quality and performance out of Lectro Digital Hybrids. But it is a slightly awkward setup (thus sometimes when it isn't appropriate to use a MM1, I've used a Lectro UH200D instead. But only rarely, say when I'm just helping out mixing a student short film for a film school project and the student boom op I'm given is very very green then I might have them use a UH200D instead just to make their life as easy as possible while they try to learn to boom)

 

Am already starting this process to switch over to fully digital booms, is going to happen this month! Already got some parts for it, and finally just yesterday the other key parts (the Sony DWT-P01N and the receiver) got released from NZ Customs (so should be arriving at my door any day now!).

 

Very strangely even though Sony has been making wireless systems since the 1950's and were one of the first to create digital wireless and remote controls over the transmitters (they either beat Zaxcom to being first with both of these features, or where a close second place. I need to look up and check the exact timings when this happened for each) they never became very popular in the Sound Dept on films/tv. Although a few Sound Mixers were using Sony DWX, such as:

 

 

https://www.sportsvideo.org/2018/08/08/storied-sound-engineer-continues-to-innovate-with-sony-dwx-wireless-mics/ 

 

I think the biggest issue Sony had which really very seriously held them back in a big way from gaining widespread usage in our niche is their lack of a Superslot compatible receiver. But this all changes now with their third generation DWX wireless, as they've released the Superslot compatible Sony DWR-S03D:

 

 

The other big problem with Sony is that they focused all their promotion and marketing of their Sony DWX digital systems to cameramen and camera rentals houses instead of paying attention to us and our needs. Could you imagine if ARRI only bothered to market their cameras to us? And not to folks in the camera dept. That would be a very weird world. 

 

I think the Sony DWR-S03D and the Sony DWT-P01N combo is what really swung me in favor of Sony DWX, as I reckon Shure Axient Digital in a bag doesn't quite match the bag capabilities of a Sony DWX setup. (or at least, not until Shure brings out their ADX3 transmitter??)

 

Plus Sony DWX digital wireless is a little cheaper than any other comparable digital system from Shure / Lectrosonics / Sound Devices Wireless / etc. (such as the price difference between a Sony DWT-B03R vs Shure ADX1M vs Sound Devices A20-Mini. The Sony is the cheapest. Although... the Lectrosonics DBSMD is the cheapest of them all! But lacks the same kind of silent remote control feature set)

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1445263-REG/sony_dwt_p01n_30a_dwt_p01n_plug_on_transmitter_channels.html 

 

https://daleproaudio.com/collections/shop?q=sony dwx&fbclid=IwAR0ujss4SJFXIMnokrojxTEPvIklidbkiWwT0QfAPv8cxOIXmqhZCfBlstA#/filter:ss_price:1000:1500/filter:ss_price:1500:2000/filter:ss_price:2000:* 

 

Anyway, mainly only switching over my Booms to Sony DWX. The bulk of my talent bodypacks will mostly remain as Lectrosonics Digital Hybrids for the foreseeable future. No need to rush into the digital future for everything

 

Who knows how the future might change over the next five plus years! Perhaps Sound Devices Wireless will release an A20-Nexus quad receiver at half the price? And some normal sized A20-TX transmitters? There are many many changes which might happen that could swing the pendulum in favor of one system or another. 

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5 hours ago, listening and learning said:

"If I were to do it all again today, I'd go with something other than Lectro (...Sound Devices A-10, Shure Axient, Wisycom, Sony DWX...), but alas, I bought-in so long ago and now I'm stuck..."

 

As someone who's just starting to build (currently dreaming of / saving-up for) my wireless kit from scratch, I'd love to know what wireless ecosystem(s) would you go with if you were building your kit anew today, and why?

 

I like the initial question.  I think there are a few sides to this for wireless units.

The issue is if you are starting out then you have limited capital and cannot buy the best quality choose any make/models . Used wireless equipment that is only 10 years old is not going to be all of today's brands.

So in a forum thread you have to ask it one way or both ways.

Starting out today in 2022 (post 600Mhz FCC spectrum selloff and illegal in 2020) you really need to have the knowledge of wideband Tx and Rx and why NOT to just get say 2 wireless units used in Lectrosonics Block 19 or say Block 25 (illegal...yes except for that guard band yes yes...)

 

 

Starting out in your career  where you need to buy your entire sound kit (mixer, boom, mics, etc) do you go with Prosumer level like Sennheiser G4 units and buy just 4 and then move up once access to more capital?

 

Or the other way this thread conversation is If I were to do it all again today [buying a wireless system from scratch and NOT owning any wireless hardware you MIGHT want to have compatible to use] but you had a large amount capital are you mostly doing narrative or docu, reality, network news, sports? If it is narrative having the ability to remote your receivers not just the sharkfin antennas may be the way to go. So receivers that have Dante may make sense. half rack semi-portable units like Lectrosonics DSQD fit that bill. compatible with older Digital Hybrid transmitters. You could buy used Tx to start and move up to digital Tx for new.

I like the competition of the brands selling fully digital pro wireless units Audio Limited, Lectrosonics, Sennheiser, Shure, Sony, Zaxcom.  Wisycom is NOT in that group.

 

For remoting wireless receivers there is the idea of using a interface/converter box like a Ferrofish Pulse16 that could take analog inputs from any brand's receivers and go Dante down to the sound cart.

You might be able to even get rackmount receivers but they have AC power requirements and that is an issue with generators.

If you are really NOT doing narrative and using a soundcart for 50% of your work currently (and plan to for more of) you need fully portable receivers.

Not a lot of research available but I read that Sennheiser Rx gets hot and is power hungry. I like that the Sony is 3rd generation digital. Audio LImited & Shure Axient sounds good but a couple small issues. 

build-quality of bodypack Tx is very important as they DO get dropped. plastic, aluminum?

These days with higher track counts seeing the features like Superslot compatibility is a huge factor for many in the Sound Devices world. AES outputs on Rx and how you are getting them into your mixer come into play.

Another major consideration is repair speed and customer service. a regional sound rental vendor making repairs or shipping to the brand mothership.

Another consideration is in the type of work do you need to share a talent Tx with another soundie where you both have a compatible receiver? Lectrosonics in the same block has been pretty standard for broadcast TV type work for years.

Another consideration is the type of connector for lavs to Tx and needing to rent more lavs. TA4F, TA5F, LEMO3pin , 1/8"screwon, and repairing/rewiring connectors.

Another thought is would you be repurposing a Dual receiver to use as a broadcast quality L/R camera hop required in some types of work: sports ENG/Network News quick turnaround?

Seeing more Tx products being released shows the support from a brand. The more Tx  and Rx products being released means you have access to more tools with features. It also means seeing how much R&D brands are putting into wireless units.

I haven't done ALL of the research I'd need to on the above but having access to rent a model you are considering to buy means limited brands. Many sound vendors don't carry all of the brands/models in their inventory. I've never seen a Sennheiser pro system in the field or Sony for that matter. Thanks Ironfilm for the Sony videos.    

I'd like to lean towards Shure Axient personally then Lectrosonics.

 

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20 minutes ago, PCMsoundie said:

I've never seen a Sennheiser pro system in the field or Sony for that matter. Thanks Ironfilm for the Sony videos.    

Yeah if you care about being able to easily access compatible rentals anywhere in the world, or need to be able to tune into other systems (such as on large reality shows, where equipment will be mixed and matched together) then both Sennheiser's and Sony's pro grade wireless systems should be at the bottom of your considerations. And Lectrosonics should still be the #1 consideration. 

 

20 minutes ago, PCMsoundie said:

You might be able to even get rackmount receivers but they have AC power requirements and that is an issue with generators.

 

I think all the brands have DC powering options for their rack receivers? (or half rack) 

Lectrosonics / Wisycom / Sound Devices Wireless / Shure / etc (hmmm.... except the Sony DWR-R03D, sadly it is AC only. The older Sony DWR-R02D had DC powering!! Very sad Sony removed this for the 3rd generation DWX. Oh, and except for Zaxcom as well, because they don't have any rack receivers at all, they're on their own path instead. Edit: hmm... the Sennheiser EM 6000 and Sennheiser EM 9046 rack receivers are also AC only. Yet another reason we never see Sennheiser or Sony pro wireless in our little niche!) 

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There is no such thing as buy once!

 

I started with new 'Lectro gear long ago (185s) and have continually upgraded. I will go all digital soon, 'Lectro of course, and have learned to upgrade early enough so that my old gear has a higher cash value on the used market.

 

As IronFilm noted, compatibility with others is a huge advantage, as is backwards compatibility within a system.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

 

 

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When I was starting out and had wirelesses from a couple of different makers (all of them dead or gone now) I hated the connector-compato issues I had to deal with on every shoot.  A very long time ago I standardized on Lectro...and then Lectro "unstandardized", having a couple of different connectors and wiring schemes.  It seems like most soundies try to keep their package as interchangeable as they can.  For a newb today, probably buying used gear mostly, I'd say Lectro was still the best bet in terms of compato, being able to rent more-of-same and getting service, and is likely to be sellable at some price as long as it still works and is legal.  Financing really expensive new wireless gear of any kind seems terrifying these days..tough choices, don't envy you guys.

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I'm still stoked on my 400 series Lectro gear.  Bought my first one in I want to say 2012? and still have it.  I first used Lectro gear on set in film school in January 2009 on a shoot (pictured below during a night shoot in the famous "Bookman" book store in Orange, CA).  I was blown away back then by how great the pair I had on a shoot sounded and the range was fantastic vs the very old Audio Technica sets I had used prior.  I already have a DSR4 on pre-order and it's fantastic that I can still use the stuff I purchased in 2012 alongside anything new in the digital domain as time goes on.

2-f3UKE1GKEeY80FA280PJn_Zd5zrtWojYdm89ct

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8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

However... Lectrosonics is still keeping in place their awesome backwards compatibility! Thus I can see myself buying one more piece of Lectrsonics gear next year: the Lectrosonics DSR4! Really looking forward to it

 

Agreed! DSR4 does look awesome, and I'll be keeping tabs on it as well. For the reasons you've mentioned, I will likely be investing in used Lectro's when I can afford 'em. Backwards compatibility is an absolute essential to my mind, especially amidst the current zeitgeist of "disposable" tech! Thank you also for sharing your interest on Sony's ecosystem and plug-on Tx's, I was not aware of their strengths.

 

5 hours ago, PCMsoundie said:

The issue is if you are starting out then you have limited capital and cannot buy the best quality choose any make/models.

[...]

Starting out today in 2022 (post 600Mhz FCC spectrum selloff and illegal in 2020) you really need to have the knowledge of wideband Tx and Rx

[...]

Starting out in your career where you need to buy your entire sound kit (mixer, boom, mics, etc) do you go with Prosumer level like Sennheiser G4 units and buy just 4 and then move up once access to more capital?

 

These questions are all very much at the forefront of my mind! As are the rest of your points! Thank you for your insights and considerations. My biggest hurdle is indeed the financial one, and at this point, I'm researching as much as I can in order to make sure every penny goes as far, and accomplishes as much as it possibly can. I'd welcome any pointers/reading recommendations on wireless theory (or anything related, always)!

 

4 hours ago, Tim Norris said:

There is no such thing as buy once!

Ah, yes, I think I got the idiom wrong... I think I meant "cry now or cry later"... But at this point, I'd love to sharpen the axe as much as I can, and buy as few times as needed... to ensure I'll be getting the most bang for my buck (for the smaller-crew work that's been most-often coming my way). I am beginning to fully understand that in our ever-evolving gear-world of production sound, there will always be another bigger, better new piece of kit being released (to long after and learn about)!

 

3 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

Financing really expensive new wireless gear of any kind seems terrifying these days..tough choices, don't envy you guys.

Thank you for your empathy and sentiments, I'm honored and appreciate it. And still definitely a big fan of Lectro. I'm the sort of person who sincerely enjoys learning how to keep my machines well-oiled, and repair, refurbish, rebuild to make them last as long as possible/sensible. Unless the fates smile upon me, or somehow logic dictates a new purchase is absolutely necessary, I'll be going with tried and true used gear all the way!

 

 

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1 hour ago, listening and learning said:

For the reasons you've mentioned, I will likely be investing in used Lectro's when I can afford 'em

I'm starting to see a lot of the 400 series single block SM series Lectros coming up for sale in the $700-900 range for an SMV/SMQV.  Seems prices are dipping a bit as I'm assuming more and more are jumping on the digital train?  I recently picked up another HM plug on transmitter in the block I wanted for just $750 so there are definitely deals to be had out there.

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I held onto my single band Lectros until the FCC repack made them useless, with no open frequencies across two out of three blocks I was on. I was able to sell off what I had and eventually ended up on Wisycom systems, and am very glad I did. There are some things that I miss with Lectro, but I feel like most things they’ve introduced with their newer systems are already available with other companies, and they continually go up in price, but always a few steps behind the rest, and in my experience, the quality and functionality isn’t quite up to where they were in years past. Just my opinion. 
 

That said, if you’re looking for deals, there are plenty to be had if blocks are wide open in your area. Where I live, wideband is necessary due to all the radio and cell towers, and flat terrain, so I’m being bombarded by all used bands from all sides with no geography to provide blind spots like Los Angeles has. 
 

edit: Whatever you do, do it as you can afford it. Do not go into debt unless you can realistically predict that you can afford to pay it off. I started out with my laptop running Pro-Tools and a wired boom, rented mic and home made boom pole. Within a few months a had a portable two-track recorder and my own 416. Within a few months I had my first set of Sennheisers. A few months later a portable multi track recorder, and more wireless. Within about a year and a half I bought my Sound Devices 788T new, as well as proper powering, real boom poles, and my first couple sets of Lectros. But I bought all that with money I made doing sound. I never got into debt until I was well established, and had good enough credit to get a credit card. 
 

But as a newb, it may be best to work your way up to mixer by booming/utility for more established mixers. That way you learn about the gear, experience the pros and cons first hand, and build a network that can guarantee a smooth transition into mixer in a few years when you can get your own gigs because you already have a network and clients, and you can afford to get the good stuff when it’s new. That’s been the best road to success that I’ve seen amongst my friends and colleagues. I wish someone told me that back in the day, but we didn’t have the social medias and communities like we do today. 

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Started with a used Cooper 104 ENG mixer and Sennheiser G2 wireless. As I made more money and learned more, I upgraded to Lectrosonics. Recently starting to digital transition. Bought an 888 and Shure ADX series wireless this summer. Love them! But I’m still hanging with Lectro due to backwards compatibility like other posters have stated and majority of my lavs are wired for Lectrosonics. Broadcast news networks are a main client, and their staff cameramen and audio techs are heavily into Lectro. Helps on big multi cam jobs if you can be somewhat compatible. Awaiting the DQSD series to be released. These are indeed exciting times for Location Sound. The manufacturers are finally listening to our needs and creating some really good tools. 

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On 12/2/2022 at 7:15 PM, codyman said:

I'm still stoked on my 400 series Lectro gear

I absolutely agree! Its mindblowing they made the UCR411 for 20 years and wireless performance is "up there" with the best of today.

 

I am fairly happy with Lectro boom/Wisy talent and Sennheiser for IFB and some backup channels.

 

I think there is something to be said of having the bulk of wireless in the same brand to make coordinating frequencies easier.

 

Wish I stepped up from my Sennheisers earlier, but hey, I dont beat myself over it. It feelt that a new generation of wireless was on the verge of being launched so I waited and waited and I took a deep breath and ordered the MTP60s and MCR54 when they were released as they checked about everything I could think of.

 

If the 4ch lectro would be in the talks last year, I would have considered it but still think wisy has the edge if I were to pick from scratch. Lectro lacks the last bells and whistles, but they just work (digital hybrid that is). In the meanwhile the paint of the wisys have started to peel off, but I dont have to worry about frequencies at all. Recording on SD, but the reception is so good so I dont really have to pull the cards anyways.

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Just my 2ct. If I'd want to invest in a 2 to 8 channel wireless system, I'd probably pick the system/family that is most common in my city from rental houses and colleagues if I need temporary replacement or occasional expansion or rent out my units to others. In my case, that would be Wisycom.

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I just purchased my first RF this year. I have used many brands throughout the years and each brand has their own unique qualities. During COVID I had been doing an array of different gigs. There are many factors that I considered when purchasing. My main criteria was sound quality, price and utility. 


 My first RF purchase was the Sennheiser G4.  I decided the 500 series would be the best for multi-purpose use.  The 500 series has three main features that dictated my purchase over the 100 series. Those are 50mW output power, a headphone amp on the receiver and mke 2 lav. On a clean frequency the sennheiser sounds great and I have never had any issues. The mke 2 sounds great and it gets the job done. I believe these are underrated and I may purchase more as they are inexpensive and can be such a utility piece. In addition I purchased this inline preamp for the mke 2 with 3.5mm. It has been used on various instruments when I need something discrete and run out of 4099s. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387918-REG/Sennheiser_MZA900P_MZA_900_P.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=CjwKCAiAp7GcBhA0EiwA9U0mtqiH93cgF-5Eq5te3KAFzBSS98GoKdXdAO8llvXtc0w2QEz93v4sThoC2q4QAvD_BwE

 

My opinion on Senneheiser is they were ahead of their time with the digital stuff. It is built well and I have used their top of the line units. It sounds great but you cannot change settings from the receiver like Shure and it is not cheap. I used the 6000 series on a film in 2021 and I loved the SK6212s. They are tiny and last a long long time something like 12 or 14hrs if I remember correct. I also tried their EK6042 but with SK5212s. That receiver is backwards compatible with all of their stuff. I do not remember if it was power hungry but I do remember it was heavy built like a tank.  

 

I have been using lectro for the past two years in extremely tough environments. While I chose not to purchase lectro it was critical for me at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, one of the toughest RF environments in Pac 12 football. Lectro makes the only transmitter that outputs 250mW. This was the only device that would get above the noise floor and allow me to do a show where my antennas were located at the press box. While I believe digital systems sound better, I am not sure if any of them would make the distance. Perhaps it was the environment but I never loved the sound of the system. It does get the job done and when I am in a challenging environment, 250mW is comforting. 

 

My first Pro Purchase 

Last year I rented an axient system to record an opera. This was a rack mount system with adx1s and dpa 4066. When I returned home and listened on proper monitors I was blown away. I ordered axient the following day. After months of waiting and waiting, I stumbled onto the exact system I ordered at a local store.  I purchased my first system and I couldn’t be happier. I am still putting it through its paces . While axient is expensive I believe it is the best sounding system available. One could buy the ad transmitters and get the system a lot cheaper. Shure is the complete package with WWB, showlink, and the array of options.  Audio quality is top notch. They offer lemo on all beltpacks. I am fortunate to work at some pretty large venues and all of them use axient. I haven't tested the ADX5D in stadiums yet, but I have done tests with axient handhelds and rack mount receivers in stadiums with surprising results. The only thing that is problematic is lead-time. 

 

 

 

 

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It is a pity, that Wisycom has not the fame as the ohter brands.

I am using them now for 4 years. First the MCR 52 with the old transmitters and now the MCR54 with the new ones.

During this time I maybe had a handful of drop outs.

IN the beginning I scanned everytime I came to a new place. Since I have the MCR54 I often totally forgot to scan, because they are working rock solid.

For bag work I use the Lectro dipols and on the cart the Wisycom sharks. On both antennas the range ist crazy. No problems through thick walls, cars and other stuff. Sometimes I even cant see the actors but still receiving them.  Battery Life is long. I change them normaly just after lunch. I found the right gain and I only have to turn it down when it gets really lound.

This is my nearly set and forget wireless system.

Peace.

 

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