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Boom Recorder issue...?


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I recently did a shoot with the boom recorder software, and upon listening to it after the shoot, it sounds all messed up. There is some sort of echo, and all kinds of clicking that is very much like static, but there was none of this going into the board. Could it be a sample rate issue? Can anything be done about it? I just looked at my settings, and one of them that had always been set at 48K was set at 44.1K, so this is what leads me to believe that it had been changed. I'm sure I'm going to hear about this soon, so I'd like to see if anyone has come across this before? I've done a dozen or so shoots with this software with no problems, so this is a new one on me.

Thanks,

Tom Curley

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It sounds like you had 48K going in and 44.1 trying to be recorded. Likely that was the problem but I'm sure Take will chime in. It may also have to do with your clock source. How was your system set up? When I first set up my Boom Recorder I had the wrong clock source selected and I noticed it was a similar sound to what you described. My Motu is clocked to the 744 Spdif and Boom Recorder is also clocked to Spdif.

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Well, the plot thickens. I did a commercial not 2 days later, and that audio was perfectly fine. The difference between the two was that I was pumping TC in from my PD4 on the commercial, and using the Boom Recorder's internal Time of Day TC for the problem recording. Now, it'svery possible that it defaulted to 44.1, but my Yamaha 01V96 was set to 48K, resulting in an incorrect sample rate recording. Now, my question: Can something be done to correct this after the fact?

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Boom Recorder does not change the sample rate of the audio interface, so the sample rate would remain as it was the last time. However a lot of programs do change the sample rate, if you would play an audio file with a 44.1 sample rate with an audio player it is very likely the audio player set the sample rate of the device to match the sample rate of the audio file being played.

I think it will not be possible (or at least not easy) to fix the audio that has been recorded like this.

Cheers,

    Take

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Hi,

I will be changing the sample rate configuration in Boom Recorder soon, but it will be hard to determine a sample rate mis-match. A human can do that much better.

It is possible to monitor the audio coming through Boom Recorder, using the "monitor" button in the Path Bay. Sample rate miss matches would be quite noticeable that way.

Cheers,

    Take

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  • 4 weeks later...

My Motu is clocked to the 744 Spdif and Boom Recorder is also clocked to Spdif.

Are you referring to SMPTE or word clock? Must be word clock I suspect as MOTU (Traveler) I/Os SMPTE via analog only. If you've got MOTU and Boomrecorder clocked to SPDIF, are you not running SMTPE T/C at all? Maybe (most probably) I'm missing something simple. I've been having some issues with a similar set up:  01V96 + Traveler + BoomRecorder (v7.13) + 744T (v2.03) and the late nights are eating away my synapses!

I'm hoping some brave souls who have navigated the murky waters before me can offer a hand with configuration or confirm this setup works (or doesn't for whatever reason). I'm beginning to confuse myself with all of this (and the bottomless 01V96 menu layers) and there are no locals within 500 miles who would have a clue of what I'm talking about. Not real good cocktail talk if you know what I mean. :(

I'm new to the MOTU and lightpipe thing too, which may be adding to my cunfusion. OK I must confess, no small influence either from the bottomless microbrews fueling these late night sessions. :P

My system is configured as follows:

744T as SMPTE T/C master clock > LEMO OUT > 01V96 Ch16 IN > [direct out] > OMNI OUT 4 > MOTU 8 IN  > MOTU 8 OUT (for slate jamming). 744T @ 24b/48k, 30fps. This is the only analog throughput in my system.

01V96 ADAT OUT > MOTU ADAT IN; MOTU ADAT OUT > 01V96 ADAT IN

01V96 SPDIF OUT > MOTU SPDIF IN; MOTU SPDIF OUT > 01V96 SPDIF IN

The above digi returns are for monitoring only.

MOTU >1394a > LaCie d2 250 (triple i/o) > 1394b/a > Powerbook G4 (OS 10.4.6) > Boomrecorder. Boomrecorder @ 24b/48k, 30fps

MY8AE96 card in the 01V96 provides for another 8 channels I/O AES/EBU. 1/2 + 3/4 OUT > 744T IN. 5/6 OUT > MOTU AES/EBU IN (for 2 additional Boomrecorder inputs although haven't needed to use them yet. Same story with the 2 available SPDIF channels).

744T WC OUT > MOTU WC IN

MOTU WC OUT > 01V96 WC IN

MOTU menu set for "WORDCLOCK OUT: FOLLOW SYSTEM"

In essence, I've got SMPTE originating from the 744T and traveling downstream through 01V96 to MOTU. Whereas word clock also originates at the 744T, but then runs to MOTU and then chaining out from there to 01V96 (both via BNC). All menus are set for 24bit/48kHz. I tried to drive word clock out of the 744T to 01V96 and then out to MOTU, by daisy-chaining and by spliting out from the 744T directly to either, but I couln't seem to get it to work with either combination. I get 01V96 Sync Error (ADAT IN) by chaining 744T > 01V96 > MOTU or "WRONG WORD CLOCK" by splitting out to both from the 744T.

I thought all this would be pretty straightforward...until I got into it and kept getting 01V96 word clock "Sync Error (ADAT IN)" and "WRONG WORD CLOCK". I think I had the MOTU word clock originally set for "WORDCLOCK OUT: FORCE 44/48" and 01V96 set for INT48k. When I set the MOTU for "follow system" and put it in between the 744T and 01V96 things appeared to get better. I guess I could have specified word clock via ADAT or SPDIF (in the 01V96 DIO menu) to run from MOTU to 01V96, but I'm used to BNC connections to drive word clock.

I've been playing with all of this at home for a while and I think I'm getting too OCD with the variety of possible combinations. I've got an otherwise simple job coming up, which would allow me to test drive the whole system (as backup until I'm sure it works for me and for post workflow).

The only short-term addition to the above set up will be my new 1394a bus-powered DVD-RAM drive (with XL1394 filter) when it arrives in a couple of days. I'm still not sure yet whether to feed it direct out from the 744T just for the dailies mix or from the d2 for access to all Boomrecorder tracks, but I'm thinking the former would be simpler and less confusing for post folks. I'll have the Boomrecorder iso tracks on HD anyway, which will be delivered at end of show (or whenever they want it).

If that isn't enough, I have one other question regarding the 01V96-MOTU combo. Are any of you guys using MIDI to control the MOTU from the 01V96 control surface? I haven't gotten that far, but I think it's possilbe.

TIA for all comments or suggestions...

EB

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Hello Eric,

Whow, who knew clocking issues could get so complicated.

BTW did you know you can see if your sample rate is locked to SMPTE timecode by clicking twice in the timecode field of Boom Recorder? It will show the sample rate in reference to the SMPTE timecode.

I am not sure if this will help you debug your problems.

Cheers,

  Take

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Eric,

In essence, I've got SMPTE originating from the 744T and traveling downstream through 01V96 to MOTU. Whereas word clock also originates at the 744T, but then runs to MOTU and then chaining out from there to 01V96 (both via BNC). All menus are set for 24bit/48kHz. I tried to drive word clock out of the 744T to 01V96 and then out to MOTU, by daisy-chaining and by spliting out from the 744T directly to either, but I couln't seem to get it to work with either combination. I get 01V96 Sync Error (ADAT IN) by chaining 744T > 01V96 > MOTU or "WRONG WORD CLOCK" by splitting out to both from the 744T.

I thought all this would be pretty straightforward...until I got into it and kept getting 01V96 word clock "Sync Error (ADAT IN)" and "WRONG WORD CLOCK". I think I had the MOTU word clock originally set for "WORDCLOCK OUT: FORCE 44/48" and 01V96 set for INT48k. When I set the MOTU for "follow system" and put it in between the 744T and 01V96 things appeared to get better. I guess I could have specified word clock via ADAT or SPDIF (in the 01V96 DIO menu) to run from MOTU to 01V96, but I'm used to BNC connections to drive word clock.

EB

If I am correctly visualizing your system, on the surface it looks like you have NO master word clock at all!  I believe that you are trying to use the 744 as a word clock master via BNC, while all the while the 744 is trying to slave off of the 01V96 via the digital audio being sent from your Yamaha's AES card.  The 744 CANNOT be used as a master word clock while being fed digital audio.  As soon as it sees digital audio at an input, it defaults to slave mode.  SO, in my opinion, you are currently suffering from highly unstable system clocking as you have no master.

If I am correct, I can offer you a couple of solutions, just let me know if you'd like some more assistance.

Cheers,

Darren

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Hello Eric,

Whow, who knew clocking issues could get so complicated.

BTW did you know you can see if your sample rate is locked to SMPTE timecode by clicking twice in the timecode field of Boom Recorder? It will show the sample rate in reference to the SMPTE timecode.

I am not sure if this will help you debug your problems.

Cheers,

  Take

Thanks, Take.

Yeah I noticed that feature in your latest update 7.1.3. It does show 48000.0 Hz when I click on it and it is of help, but as Darren B. I think I have issues beyond that. This is more of a hardware thing I believe. FWIW, Boomrecorder is as or more stable than anything in the chain! Keep it up...

EB

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If I am correctly visualizing your system, on the surface it looks like you have NO master word clock at all!  I believe that you are trying to use the 744 as a word clock master via BNC, while all the while the 744 is trying to slave off of the 01V96 via the digital audio being sent from your Yamaha's AES card.  The 744 CANNOT be used as a master word clock while being fed digital audio.  As soon as it sees digital audio at an input, it defaults to slave mode.  SO, in my opinion, you are currently suffering from highly unstable system clocking as you have no master.

If I am correct, I can offer you a couple of solutions, just let me know if you'd like some more assistance.

Cheers,

Darren

Yes, I can certianly use the help and thanks for coming the rescue, Darren. This discussion should probably surf over to continue the word clock thread as it's not directly related to Boomrecorder except in that the only reason I'm trying to plug all this stuff together is to use Boomrecorder for multi-tracking along side my 744T.

Thanks also for changing the subject line to Clocking.

So I was fine using the 01V96 to feed 4 simple tracks of AES/EBU to the 744T. The trouble began when I started trying to sync the different digital devices, lightpipe, firewire, etc.

What you are saying makes some since although I'd be lying if I said I completely understand why the 744T wants to kick into slave mode with the incoming AES/EBU signal. I did cruise the word clock thread too, but not until after I got into my own deep muck all alone. OTOH, troubleshooting this web of cables and menus (or trying to rather) has helped me in other ways relating to familiarity of the general interfacing between the components, and writing it all down in my earlier post also helped to gel the specifics in my fading mind. It may not be rocket science, but it is starting to seem like it and I guess it IS computer science when it all goes digital. I only hope I'm a little smarter when this is all done and working...

My testing of Boomrecorder plays back well. At least it sounds good for the up to 5 minute runs I've been doing. Of course if I have drift involved it could get ugly over time. The disconcerting part is I have no way to check for this.

So If I can't master word clock from the 744T due to the AES/EBU inputs, would it be better to master TC alone from it and WC from the MOTU instead? I know there is a MOTU clock/preamp upgrade I can have done, and I plan to look into it one of these days, but I'm hoping to get this all working for the interim without kicking down more $.

The main reason I have tried to do it as I have is so i can maximize the use of the Ambient Clock in the 744T. I saw you commented on the same idea in the other word clock thread. I know it's the best clock i've got in the system by far.

Boy, this sho is thirsty work. Too bad I drank all the ales while playing with this last night! :P

So what would you suggest as a plan of attack?

EB

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