mikewest Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 Have serviced many RED shoots over the last 2 years Normally feed guide audio by radio. I record separately. With a build 21 camera last week - camera locks up and says "sound error" Did experience this with build 19 Anybody with similar experiences/comment solutions ?? mike www.mikewestgatesound.co.nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 With a build 21 camera last week - camera locks up and says "sound error" Anybody with similar experiences/comment solutions ?? ______ Yes I have RED b21 w/ hard drive mounted on a truck bouncing over ruts Camera assistant unplugged the audio and it had no effect other than to get a big WTF? look from me apparently audio is the canary in the coal mine Next time we had that scenario camera had switched to CF cards and we had no issues al mcguire jacksonville fl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSound Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 Have had similar issues along with build 21 as well but when we used a build 19 no issues. Client was having a panic attack about if even though I had everything ISO on my sound devices recorder. But after hearing the final product I could tell they used RED Audio instead as they didn't want to sync. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 " camera locks up and says "sound error" " now even the camera is blaming us for its problems! " they used RED Audio instead as they didn't want to sync. " this is very common!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 With a build 21 camera last week - camera locks up and says "sound error" Anybody with similar experiences/comment solutions ?? ______ Yes I have RED b21 w/ hard drive mounted on a truck bouncing over ruts Camera assistant unplugged the audio and it had no effect other than to get a big WTF? look from me apparently audio is the canary in the coal mine Next time we had that scenario camera had switched to CF cards and we had no issues al mcguire jacksonville fl I have seen this error on a job when no sound gear was connected to the camera and no audio channels were enabled. It was certainly on build 19 or earlier. but that's not the point. Sound errors on the Red 1 have nothing to do with us. Or what we have connected. Or not connected. Unlike Al's situation, the camera was sitting on a dolly, relatively undisturbed. As Al said it's the canary in the coal mine, a sound error message on the Red is a lot like getting an oxygen sensor error code when the check engine light comes on in your car. It doesn't mean that the sensor's bad and needs to be replaced. It means something is wrong somewhere. Luckily it's easier to reboot one of those Red cameras than it is to diagnose an automotive error code. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I have also experienced this problem on build 21. Camera kept shutting down with audio alert. Unplugged audio cabling from camera, problem persisted. In the heat of battle hard to say "not my problem" but certainly thinking so. Chris Newton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I've had this too, with DITs I know well so I knew they weren't screwing with me. It does seem to be an indication of something else wrong, not really sound but related in some mysterious RED way. That's why we record double system and bring a TC slate--you can never tell when the camera will somehow need to be free of your feed (wired OR wireless) and TC gear in order to keep functioning. It's really ok--the producers should be including post syncing in their plans, and I've had so much trouble w/ audio returns from REDs that I'm never really sure what's getting laid down on the camera. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lezynski Posted April 6, 2010 Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 And Occasionally a take of 8 minutes or more may lose audio entirely for a spell. Double system is mandatory. Do not take this lightly. Tiz a psychotic camera...... beware at all levels. Tears and teeth grinding will be the result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted April 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 Cheers all you guys I do use a timecode slate and also put a Denecke generator on the camera so editing have a chance of syncing and locating stuff with my separate sound Oh well one day !!! mike www.mikewestgatesound.co.nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 6, 2010 Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 Red is now up to Build 30.5 as of 4/2/2010. I suggest to Mike that you tell the D.I.T. they should take a day off (maybe on a weekend) and update all the firmware, and see if this helps the problem. The new firmware is free and downloadable here: http://www.red.com/support --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted April 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 Cheers Mark Guess the boat with the software update is taking it's time!!!!!!! mike www.mikewestgatesound.co.nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Smith Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 I've had the same issue with that build. Of course, the first thing they do is point to the sound crew "must have been your fault!". Disconnecting sound from the camera altogether dispelled them of that notion. Unfortunately, it would seem that all the HD cams have a ways to go before the get to the level of sophistication we have become used to with film cameras. Every one of them I've worked with has had some issue or another to contend with. --Scott I have also experienced this problem on build 21. Camera kept shutting down with audio alert. Unplugged audio cabling from camera, problem persisted. In the heat of battle hard to say "not my problem" but certainly thinking so. Chris Newton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bryant Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 In my experience with the RED camera and the info I've been given from two (seemingly)competent RED owners who claim to have never had issues with their cameras but have been DITs on other shoots that have had issues with their RED, they seem to be of the opinion that most issues with the RED have to do with the camera getting too hot causing CPU and RAM errors, ('Sound Error' prompt seems like a programmers practical joke to me...) A piece of advice I was given, was that if you are in a situation where heat is an issue, the use of a bag of frozen pees placed on top of the camera helps avoid heating issues. This RED owner owns two REDs and claims neither have had problems. But frozen peas or gel packs placed under the handle on top of the camera and changing them out every 20-30 minutes seems to work well. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31951&highlight=frozen+peas Also keeping the camera out of direct sunlight is a good idea. But most crews I've worked with know this is ideal. The RED is an ADVENTURE though. But if you treat it like the baby that it is... things can go okay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDirckze Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 But frozen peas or gel packs placed under the handle on top of the camera and changing them out every 20-30 minutes seems to work well. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31951&highlight=frozen+peas Also keeping the camera out of direct sunlight is a good idea. But most crews I've worked with know this is ideal. Wow, this Red camera sounds like a real piece of shit. I can't believe consumers expect so little from manufacturers these days, that they are willing to place frozen peas on a piece of shit camera that is built so badly that it can't operate out in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 I'm about to start a movie shot almost entirely day exterior in New Orleans on the RED camera. Bring out the frozen peas! Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bryant Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I'm about to start a movie shot almost entirely day exterior in New Orleans on the RED camera. Bring out the frozen peas! Robert Let us know what your frozen pea work flow turns out to be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 If it were Panavision and not the RED I'm sure there would be several insulated cases marked "Panapeas" with their own part no. and daily rental charge... just thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 they would need to be stored in the "Panacooler" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 If it were Panavision and not the RED I'm sure there would be several insulated cases marked "Panapeas" with their own part no. and daily rental charge... just thinking. The Panavised RED.... Camera from hell? Or solution to all the issues with the RED? I did tons of spots with the Panavised CEI video camera way back then and I'm not sure what I think about the notion of "Panapeas" other than they'd probably make a bitchin' location freezer to go along as part of the package. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Panafreeze for Panapeas ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Panafreeze for Panapeas ?? Obviously the panoply for that pesky overheating issue, no matter the name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Bah, the word for the day is PANACEA. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I just had a "new one" w/ the RED (latest build fw). I was the audio post guy on this one, and all the audio I got from the camera was strangely distorted. Not clipped, just grungey or "hairy". I knew they had a Canon 5D with them on this job and at first thought they had recorded the interviews to that camera, but later found out it was all recorded on the RED. The sound of the audio reminded me of early Betacam audio when the Dolby B switch would hang up in a middle position, ie "sort-of-on", and yielded "hairy" dialog. I've never heard RED audio sound like this--it was very consistent thru the whole job. Internal camera problem ? Trying to use the mic level input and hitting it too hard (from the mixer)? Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 As this discussion evolved, in my mind I saw the following scenario play out: EXT. FILM SET - DAY FLEDGLING PA, eager to get acquainted with the crew, approaches CRUSTY GRIP. FLEDGLING PA I see we're shooting on a Red. I've heard the Red has overheating issues. How does the D.P. deal with that? Crusty Grip continues working as he answers curtly. CRUSTY GRIP Peas... He throws a C-stand onto the ground at Fledgling PA's feet and haphazardly makes a gesture toward the camera. CRUSTY GRIP (CONT'D) ...On the camera. Fledgling PA walks away with a puzzled look on his face. EXT. FILM SET - LATER The D.P. throws his hands up in exasperation and storms off toward the craft services table. 1ST AC motions Fledgling PA over. 1ST AC Camera's overheating. Do you know what to do? Fledgling PA reluctantly nods. 1ST AC (CONT'D) Take care of it. 1st AC follows after the D.P. CUT TO: C.U. of fearful look on Fledgling PA's face. EXT. CRAFT SERVICES TABLE - DAY - MOMENTS LATER D.P. and 1st AC scarf munchies. The D.P. casually turns to look toward the camera. CUT TO: C.U. of D.P. as he reacts in horror. CUT TO BLACK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Now that's a script I can believe in. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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