LuisT Posted December 12, 2022 Report Posted December 12, 2022 Hello everybody, i just finished dante level 1. I want to use the Dante capabilities of my Cantar Mini. The idea is just to had a few iso's that i am missing with the physical inputs. I want to just out via the direct outs of a SD 442 to a Sonifex DIO 15 (4 Analog Line IN to Dante). I need a switch that is POE, can turn off EEE, with a minimum speed of 1Gb and ideally that is 12V. I saw already this thread and know a lot of people have much bigger dante setup. Do you think it's fine to use an unmanaged switch for this setup? Could you recommand me some switches that you are using and are stable. I have a cart setup but want to keep things simple, small and easy as it will stay on the cart. Also are you using mostly CAT 6 cables? The sonifex speed is limited to 100mb anyway. Thanks Quote
tourtelot Posted December 13, 2022 Report Posted December 13, 2022 Yes, you can use an unmanaged switch. I recommend the Linksys line. One of the new retail. latest, is this one: https://www.linksys.com/8-port-business-desktop-gigabit-poe-switch-lgs108p/LGS108P.html But you can find somewhat more legacy switches on eBay for around $60. Plug and play. D. Quote
LuisT Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Posted December 13, 2022 Thanks douglas. What would be the pros and cons of unmanaged vs managed switch for a small setup like mine? Also i see this : " Meets EEE (Energy Efficient Ethernet) 802.3az standard" Can EEE be turned off? Quote
LuisT Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Posted December 13, 2022 i contacted Linksys and it appears that this device is not 12V. The picture on their website is a mistake. It's AC powered, thus it can't be on my cart powered by a 12V converter from an audioroot battery. Do you have another idea? I saw on the other post the Netgear GS105E that someone else took : https://www.amazon.fr/Netgear-GS105E-200PES-Manageable-GS105Ev2-Protection/dp/B00GWKN1Q2 The problem is, this device does not have POE. And i need POE for my Sonifex DIO15. Quote
rich Posted December 13, 2022 Report Posted December 13, 2022 i have one of these on my cart https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09HGWLZSD/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A1W5E1W8ZX0BD7&psc=1&fbclid=IwAR0LHrzK-G1KD2tHbrS1OqQa0_fxPQ6FxeXnht42-x19PGm7VgYv9kQM0ws though i am sure you can find it on the Belgian Amazon site. i have had no issues with it so far. powers my Glensound speaker and I/O boxes just fine. but, i have had it connected after my A10 racks (Scorpio » A10 rack » A10 rack » linovision router » anything else that needs Dante) rather than have it as the hub that everything else is connected to. Quote
LuisT Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Posted December 13, 2022 Rich how do you plug this to an Audioroot battery or a 12V hirose? I see no power cable that comes with it. Is it this one? https://www.amazon.fr/LINOVISION-Commutateur-Industriel-amplificateur-Alimentation/dp/B09HGWLZSD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=28TAWK78WH2MX&keywords=LINOVISION+Industrial+5+Ports+Gigabit+Solar+POE+Switch&qid=1670943770&s=electronics&sprefix=linovision+industrial+5+ports+gigabit+solar+poe+switch+%2Celectronics%2C75&sr=1-3 Quote
rich Posted December 13, 2022 Report Posted December 13, 2022 it does look the same. it has a green connector on the side that you screw the bare ends of your power cable into. i did have a look, and didnt think there was enough space inside so that i could fit a Hirose socket. Quote
LuisT Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Posted December 13, 2022 so how did you soldered it if you can't fit it into a hirose? Quote
LuisT Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Posted December 13, 2022 you're taking an unterminated hirose and then put it straight into the green connector? 9 hours ago, LuisT said: Thanks douglas. What would be the pros and cons of unmanaged vs managed switch for a small setup like mine? Also i see this : " Meets EEE (Energy Efficient Ethernet) 802.3az standard" Can EEE be turned off? Do you know if EEE can be turned off on this switch? Quote
rich Posted December 13, 2022 Report Posted December 13, 2022 3 hours ago, LuisT said: so how did you soldered it if you can't fit it into a hirose? it isnt soldered. its two bare ends (i probably tinned them) screwed into the green connector on the side. its not ideal for sure, but hasnt failed yet. Quote
borjam Posted December 14, 2022 Report Posted December 14, 2022 The safe bet is a properly configured managed switch. Unmanaged ones can be a hit or miss. If it works, fine. But unmanaged switches make it impossible to diagnose "subtle" problems such as packed drops caused by failing ports, damaged or improperly wired cables... I know managed switches are much more expensive, but compared to the cost of pro recorders, microphones, etc, they are still peanuts. Just my 2 cents! Quote
LuisT Posted December 14, 2022 Author Report Posted December 14, 2022 borjam do you have any reference like the trendnet that takes 12V DC IN and cold resistant for outstide shoots but as a managed switch? : https://www.amazon.fr/TRENDnet-6-Port-Hardened-Industrial-Giga/dp/B01MQXZWLY Quote
borjam Posted December 14, 2022 Report Posted December 14, 2022 2 hours ago, LuisT said: borjam do you have any reference like the trendnet that takes 12V DC IN and cold resistant for outstide shoots but as a managed switch? : https://www.amazon.fr/TRENDnet-6-Port-Hardened-Industrial-Giga/dp/B01MQXZWLY I have looked at some options and (warning, I haven't tried it!) the Tripp Lite/Eaton line of switches seems to tick all the boxes. Moreover it is very tolerant of input voltage. Model NGI-M08C4-L2 There is come contradicting information though: The datasheet mentions Energy Efficient Ethernet, while the manual makes absolutely no mention of it. It is not even listed in the specifications and there is no command to enable/disable it. On industrial equipment it makes more sense not to support it because some exotic industrial kit can fail in surprising ways when presented with up to date equipment. I would ask them anyway. The support for fiber ports is great in case you need to extend it. With single mode fiber you can extend Gigabit Ethernet to 2 Km and the cable is very light. Of course it's impervous to electromagnetic interference. Anyway I am asking HP/Aruba. We have a good relationship with them and you can likely find some second hand older models at very good prices. I remember I tried Dante with the 2530 series and it ticked all the boxes. Quote
LuisT Posted December 15, 2022 Author Report Posted December 15, 2022 Thanks for the info. Good to know. Anyway i prefer to go with models that have been tested on the field and stable honestly. Even if what you propose seem good on paper. Quote
Johnny Karlsson Posted December 15, 2022 Report Posted December 15, 2022 I have done pretty extensive research shopping around for switches. The thing that is frustrating is that Audinate recommends using an unmanaged switch, but also one without EEE. It seems pretty much all unmanaged switches have EEE these days, and since they are not managed, there’s no way to disable that feature. My small setup is just within the cart, and so far, I have had zero problems with a Netgear GS105. But lately, I only plug the switch in to do any changes to the setup in Dante Controller. Otherwise, I just keep the devices (888, 3x DSQD, 1x AVIO w/ XLR outs powered via a POE Injector) connected to each other in a daisy-chain without the switch. And even though not recommended, I have run Wireless Designer simultaneously without hiccups, so YMMV as they say. Even though I had no issues, but because knowing that this is not recommended, I was uneasy about using this switch, and at one point ordered a similar one that had the ability to turn off EEE . For some reason, that particular switch was not playing nice with my setup at all. Could have been I received a faulty unit, but I just went back to the Netgear switch and all has been well for about two years since. I just ordered the Linovision mentioned above to see if that works. Would be cool if I could lose the POE injector and go straight from this switch to the AVIO instead. If this works, I’ll keep the Netgear switch for WD only. Quote
Peter Mega Posted December 15, 2022 Report Posted December 15, 2022 https://www.netgear.com/au/business/wired/switches/fully-managed/m4250/avline/ These switches are designed for AV use. Select use for Dante and it will configure the port accordingly. It’s not 12v DC but these are designed for what we want as far configuration goes. Quote
tourtelot Posted December 17, 2022 Report Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/15/2022 at 3:01 PM, Peter Mega said: https://www.netgear.com/au/business/wired/switches/fully-managed/m4250/avline/ That looks like a nice switch. I see that they address the issue of fan noise which has been a problem for me on the Cisco SG300/350 line. I have figured out how to lower the noise of the fans to an acceptable level but it has been a project. The great thing about the SG300 switches is that is tons of information on line concerning Dante setup and that used ones are super inexpensive on sites like eBay. I have five of them and they work great. Not DC powered of course. D. Quote
borjam Posted December 18, 2022 Report Posted December 18, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 12:01 AM, Peter Mega said: https://www.netgear.com/au/business/wired/switches/fully-managed/m4250/avline/ These switches are designed for AV use. Select use for Dante and it will configure the port accordingly. It’s not 12v DC but these are designed for what we want as far configuration goes. Then that one looks like a great solution. I always insist on managed switches because I have seen so many paranormal phenomena in my life. From negotiation mismatches to cabling problems that cause a bit of packet loss, including switches with "intelligent" switch port configuration that get confused when connected to equipment the designers did not expect, stupid multicast/broadcast "storm control" you can´t disable... You name it. The problem with unmanaged switches is, if you hit a corner case that the designers didn´t consider, you are busted. Quote
Mobilemike Posted December 20, 2022 Report Posted December 20, 2022 I’m confused I guess why you need a switch at all. If all you are connecting is the Sonifex and the Cantar, just use a CAT6 cable and plug them together. You only need a switch if you have three or more devices that all need to talk to each other. Quote
Johnny Karlsson Posted December 20, 2022 Report Posted December 20, 2022 In order to connect them, and have them talk to each other, you initially need to connect a computer and use the Dante Controller software to set up the routing. 1 hour ago, Mobilemike said: I’m confused I guess why you need a switch at all. If all you are connecting is the Sonifex and the Cantar, just use a CAT6 cable and plug them together. You only need a switch if you have three or more devices that all need to talk to each other. Quote
henrimic Posted December 20, 2022 Report Posted December 20, 2022 And if I am not wrong, the Sonifex box needs PoE to be feeded. Quote
Mobilemike Posted December 21, 2022 Report Posted December 21, 2022 On 12/20/2022 at 11:22 AM, Johnny Karlsson said: In order to connect them, and have them talk to each other, you initially need to connect a computer and use the Dante Controller software to set up the routing. That’s fair, but once you have initially set it up with the computer, you can disconnect the computer and just connect the two pieces directly to each other. If you’re using the switch only for the initial setup then the kind of switch or features on the switch shouldn’t matter at all since you were just setting it up and not even having any audio flowing through the switch. -Mike Quote
Johnny Karlsson Posted December 21, 2022 Report Posted December 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Mobilemike said: That’s fair, but once you have initially set it up with the computer, you can disconnect the computer and just connect the two pieces directly to each other. If you’re using the switch only for the initial setup then the kind of switch or features on the switch shouldn’t matter at all since you were just setting it up and not even having any audio flowing through the switch. -Mike Exactly. But also see henrimic’s comment above. Quote
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