Advice for a friend...

[curleysound]

All,

  I have a friend who has been a studio music recording engineer for a couple of decades, who has since sold the studio, and moved to LA for his daughter's acting career. He has started doing production sound, and is, imho, shooting himself in the foot. It's his attitude, and approach to production sound that are bothersome. He insists on doing it his way, which is to set up 2 c-stands at the 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock positions (If the camera is at 6 o'clock aiming at 12), and as he puts it "mic the room" and then just sit back and hit record. Not moving the mics until the next location. He repeatedly complains that the lighting and camera must accomodate this, as well as the actors, repeatedly asking them to dial the volume of their voices up or down. He recently bought some hanging "choir mics" which he intends to hang from the ceiling to the same end. He does run boom occasionally if there's some large dolly move, or steadicam, or exteriors, but that's it.

  While many of you might applaud him for standing up for rights for the sound department, I think it's going to hurt thus guy's career, and I'd like to try and turn him  in a direction that will help him out.

  I'm also a little torn as to wether or not he's got something with this, but that's not the point. The point is, wether it works well or not, there is a system, one that has evolved over the past 75 years to be an efficient, high quality adaptive system that works.

Either way, what do you think I can tell this guy to get him to realize that producers have expectations, as do the rest of the crew, which, if not met, make him look like either a rank amateur, or some kind of dissident that gives them an attitude for not accomodating his approach to this?

Thanks,

Tom

[Jeff Wexler]

He repeatedly complains that the lighting and camera must accomodate this, as well as the actors, repeatedly asking them to dial the volume of their voices up or down. He recently bought some hanging "choir mics" which he intends to hang from the ceiling to the same end.

While many of you might applaud him for standing up for rights for the sound department, I think it's going to hurt thus guy's career, and I'd like to try and turn him  in a direction that will help him out.

Tom

No applause from here...  and I don't think he will actually have a career in production sound if he continues to utilize that one "technique" you describe, that is if he is even allowed back on the set.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[old school]

Hey Curleysound, greetings... Is it 4-1 and your pulling a prank on us? Your friend, he got more than one job?  If this is true, and you want to help him out, bring him to the set with you and teach him the right way. If not he will be out of work sooner than later.

Old School

[old school]

Hey all, I forgot to say hi to Jeff n Don live on the www from the City of Lights or whatever they call Paris. Hope all is well and they don't work you to hard and you come back with more great stories.

Old School

[soundtrane]

Hi Tom,

In Indian cinema most of the time, a guide track is recorded on location so that ADR can be done on the entire film. Although this is changing nowadays and more and more films go with production sound, there's still the guid track kind of film.

I work with a boom op who is very good and when he does not have a 'sync sound' job for a while he signs on to a 'guide track' film. The scenario is thus: recorder - either a Nagra 4.2 or nowadays more than ever a DAT recorder like a Tascam DA-P1. One boom mic, mostly an old MKH816 or a 416; maybe a Sennheiser 300 series wireless system or two, just in case. One man operating the recording machine and my good friend actually booming.

Earlier, most of the time, it used to be a 'one mand job'- the 'Nagra guy' would put a generic copy of a boom pole (mostly heavy because it's made of some metal) on a flag stand well off the frame area and hit record whenever required.

Maybe your friend will actually benefit if you send him the contents of this post. Maybe not really - and that's because it is clear that he has a background in post but he has no idea at all how sound was recorded on location over the ages. Maybe a few photographs may help him understand that a microphone on a stand does not do justice to an actor on a stage.

I do fail to understand how a person who has twenty years of experience recording sound will not realize that the microphone has to be near the person who has to be recorded. It's either a conundrum or an imbroglio.

Of course, I wonder how that shoot in which he placed mics on Cstands worked out - I'm sure there were grips and gaffers and actors and everyone else - at least someone out there would have wondered whether this guy is for real or not. Maybe your friend is quite old or something - like someone of age and one would not want to get into an argument with or just be humored. It's very difficult for me to envisage... so strange....

I just did a commercial a few days ago with a recent entry - a nubile young female actor. She came in and did her thing in front of the camera. The AD had told me there would be a few wild lines for me to record and I could wrap after that. Two hours later, the unit was asked to stand by for an audio setup. I put a lav on her to send onto the 2nd track and had my boom op with a Schoeps on her as well (as usual). Within a couple of minutes she said she was unwell and was on antibiotics and her throat was not normal. I seconded that- in any case, the commercial would do better with another vox in her place, because she had no voice at all even if she would be well - she was a dancer and a looker (well... not in my pov). Her whole family had turned up somehow, including her mother who is supposed to be an acclaimed modern dancer. The  problem with these people is that they cut themselves off from the rest of the world and suddenly, now, they felt that they needed to get back. Before I wrapped, I had to record the mother (wild of course) taking the lines for her daughter. She could not even pronounce a few words that were native to her own language well enough to be taken as normal. I wrapped and met the director (a rookie) and told him 'make sure you don't use the last take'. he was apologetic, saying it was a whim of hers (the mother's) and I should not worry about it. I laughed, later...

Your friend will wither away like a flower in an atomic cloud, vaporize. I dont think he wants that to happen. Our duty (my duty as in this post) is to ensure he is AWARE of this. If he is willing to learn a bit maybe he will stand a chance. If you think he won't listen to you because of his age and associated headstrongness or anything of the kind, I will be glad to answer his queries or coach him about the basics of production sound by email, for no charge.

...and i thought this kind of thing used to happen only out here, in MOS-friendly Bombay, but this is worse.... ))))))))))

[Bartek]

Hey,

I have heard of a simular shoot up in Minesota where the sound guy (post converted to production) would set up an omni mic on a c stand and sit by his DA88 untill they would flip the room.      Perhaps the best thing you can do here as a friend is invite this guy on set an let him observe. If he is too proud to learn the way things have been done on set for the last couple decades than maybe he should persue his own acting career

B

[curleysound]

Thanks all,

  It's not a joke. I have had this guy on set, and he has this idea that his way is better. He does the post on these gigs (pretty much zero budget) and to my knowledge, has been working regularly. I don't get it either, but I'll see what I can do to either A) Understand this, or get him to do it right.

I'll keep you posted

Tom

[Philip Perkins]

Thanks all,

  It's not a joke. I have had this guy on set, and he has this idea that his way is better. He does the post on these gigs (pretty much zero budget) and to my knowledge, has been working regularly. I don't get it either, but I'll see what I can do to either A) Understand this, or get him to do it right.

I'll keep you posted

Tom

I think the key words here are "zero budget".  He's been working with people with even less experience than he has.  It's not that his approach won't work at least some of the time--he's micing the set in a way similar to how the earliest talkies were recorded,  The problem is that as soon as he gets on a job with a more experienced producer and crew he will be slaughtered if he tries this method.  Since he is your friend I would emphasize this point rather than getting into a discussion of audio aesthetics.  Inflexibility in production sound people is rarely welcomed or rewarded.

Philip Perkins CAS

[curleysound]

Phillip,

  Agreed. I think after chatting with some folks off of this thread, as well as all the input here, that that is the best way to go about it. The guy is getting paid, and my younger brother has been filling in for him. The productions that he fills in on tell ym brother that he is way better, more pleasant, and accomodating to work with, and he has a sum total of 8 months mixing experience. It's either change your ways, or pack your bags.

Thanks again,

Tom