Apple choices for the Cart

[Ron Scelza]

Dear Jeff,

Terrific site!

My wife is getting annoyed with me borrowing her Powerbook:  I have to make a decision “wife or Powerbook”. Over 30years of wife and only two years of Powerbook, I find that the Powerbook logic is easier to understand….. All that said... I have to get another wife that has an Apple or buy my own to use with the Motu Traveler, Cameo, & Deva V, for either Boom recorder or Metacorder.

I'm a fan with great respect of your diligence in your research to gaining a good understanding in these matters and your benevolence in sharing your knowledge.

In my limited practical use of Apples I am considering the Mini Mac or Ibook 12” both w  Super drive. My attempt to sort out the Pro’s and Con’s;  MacMini;  cost, additional monitors, keyboards, VS,  Ibook;  best use of cart real estate and power consumption is doomed. Just when I thought I had it sorted out, the choices were broadened by the Steve Jobs post “Recent Announcements” weighed against my earlier choices.

“The Help Desk”   

Currently I use a PC on the cart. The value?  Courtney’s, “BWF Widget” (PC only) for sound reports’ excel spread sheets, quick playback... The use of SD drive and DVD RAM burner, Touch screen, Video Display, Fire wire and USB...  Ideally a PC program similar to Boom Recorder or Metacorder would meet the need, (none exist for PC).

A wish list device or Bluetooth connection whereby the Mini Mac Duo could use my laptop touch pad display and keyboard. IF that doesn’t exist on planet earth, then would you consider a 12” older Ibook, X 10.4.5 (a stand alone for Boom Recorder or Metacorder)?  Best functional value?

Thank you.

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com

[Jeff Wexler]

Like everything else, you really have to consider what software is vital to your tasks, and then make your choice of computer platform. I made the overall choices years and years ago, based on my feelings about the most primary piece of software we use --- the Operating System. In my case, as is common knowledge, was the Macintosh with the Mac OS. Over all these years I have not found that there is any software program that is so vital to my needs that is not available for the Mac, I have not had to "switch" to Windows (although Courtney's BWF Widget Pro is VERY good and useful software I have to say). So, if Metacorder is what you want to run or BoomRecorder, these are both Mac only (and for good reason). A PC equivalent may be out there but I have my doubts that it would be a serious contender even for PC users.

Many people have used their PowerBooks on the Sound Cart for various purposes including master recording. Several people I know are also now using the Mac Mini quite successfully on their carts (Billy Sarokin in New York being one of the first I believe).

I will post more later regarding power requirements, space considerations and cost factors, using a Mac on the Sound Cart.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[OscarL]

I would go for the mini, it has no fan, my 17"PB has a quite loud fan that starts from time to time, especially if you run something that needs a little more CPU power. And you could keep the size of the mini down by using a really small acreen.

I'm thinking of getting myself a mini for cart use, playback and as a backup for the DEVA, if I need more channels or needs to quickly mix or edit something to use on set. Nice to have for reports, and perhaps some surfin' :-)

Oscar Lovnér

Sound Image

[Jeff Wexler]

The Mac Mini does in fact have a fan but if properly ventillated rarely comes on, and when it does come on it is fairly quiet. Although I do not yet have a Mac Mini on my cart, I do have all the makings (minus the Mac Mini itself because my wife has our only Mini and I was waiting to see what would be coming out). I have spent a fair amount of time thinking about the powering requirements because the Mac Mini would be the first ever device on my cart that would require AC. I know that many others have already had devices that have required AC power and have used inverters, UPS units and all sorts of things to keep them running. I have been very dilligent in keeping everything to only require a nominal 12 vdc.

I did do some research on the various methods to actually pull the Mac Mini apart and modify it to run on DC directly, and there have been some schemes that only require modification to the outboard "brick" that is needed with the Mac Mini. I will try and find those links and post them here. For the display I am using a Xenarc 10 inch (biggest monitor I have ever had on my cart --- you'll see when I post some pictures later).This monitor  provides 2 switchable video inputs (so I can finally see what the "B" camera is shooting even though I probably don't want to know), a standard VGA input for ANY computer, and it is a touchscreen!

As for powering, the monitor is 10-24 volts DC and the Mac Mini will probably go through a small inverter in line with my overall DC cart power supply. The other option would be to either have it powered up ONLY when AC is available or to have a very small short duration UPS and inverter used only for the brief times I am without AC.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Ron Scelza]

Dear Jeff and Oscar

Thanks for the help, the new Intel  Mac Mini is available now and just might be somewhere in my future. As with JW's cart my powering is DC, using a duel function charger, charging the batteries and powering the pack simultaneous from 110vac when available.  Presently limited to 7.5 amps max cart current draw from a 30 amp hr battery and regulated voltage supply (Averaging 5 hrs battery normal full duty).

For me the discouraging part of it all is; by adding Mac Mini, I increase the current draw an additional 6 + amps and add another power sucking monitor. In so doing requiring an increase to 30 amp regulated powering and charging capacity. Must be a ton of product out there for multiibrators and dc to dc converters usable for Mac Mini. Following is  a  quick Google search finds this DC to DC for the Mac mini http://www.kennettnet.co.uk/astramac/power/  THE CNX-P1900 DUAL OUTPUT 140 WATT INTELLIGENT DC-DC POWER REGULATORTHE CNX-P1900 DUAL OUTPUT .

Options for the brave -- instructions, Block Digram:  adding a 20 V Lithium-Ion Polymer cell and charge regulation for portable battery operation.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~silasb/macbat/

I hope that this thread continues lighting the way for those of us

Interested in Apple choices...

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com

[Jeff Wexler]

Thanks for the link to Mac Mini Surgery site --- it all looks a little drastic to me. I did some similar research awhile back and found a few useful sites which I will post below but I cannot find the best one I remember: that was a site that discussed in detail modifying the connector on the power supply brick and doing a few other less invasive things to run the Mac Mini on DC. I will keep looking.

Carnetix site has information about DC to DC products for supplying power for Mac Mini  http://www.carnetix.com/CNXP1900.htm

Digital World Wide site has lots of monitor options and power supply options for computers mounted in cars, basically 12 vdc type operation

http://www.digitalww.com/b3.htm

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Jeff Wexler]

I found the other site I was looking for and it details how to modify inline the cable from the Mac Mini power supply "brick" to the Mac Mini. You end up with a breakaway connector point without having to go into the Mac Mini or the power supply. It appears that the Mac Mini needs 18 vdc so a DC to DC module would still be needed. Some enterprising person will do a really slick mod, similare to what various companies did with the Mackies to make them DC powerable --- we will just have to find that person. In the meantime, have a look at this:

http://www.kennettnet.co.uk/astramac/power/

AstraMac website; detailed assembly for adapting power cord for Mac Mini

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Ron Scelza]

Dear Jeff,

Thanks for the spark!  Enough information now to force the Mac Mini into an unnatural state of sucking current from a 12vdc external battery. 

Armed  with an o’ scope, VTVM, slide ruler, tube tester, 60watt soldering iron, magnified glasses, decade box, pipe wrench, and a smoke detector  this power conversion will be a piece of cake..

N spite of my enthusiasm for this project...  A few minor time/space reality obstacles have to be handled first…  A  job for a few days threw the week end-- Prep, load and drive the van 1000 miles for a 30 day project, buy a cheap Mac Mini on EBay, find and order the” mystery meat that makes this work, and try to convince my wife that the smoke she smells is not money burning. 

Don’t dismay!  --- I will post my “Flashes” blow by blow here on “Apples on the Cart”... and use a 12” ibook on solar power or from a fuel cell for this show.

If anyone here has the time and does these mods; “Lithium Ion +18, trickle charge and 12v to 18v DC to DC, How much?

How soon?

Enjoy

Sincerely

Ron Scelza

http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com

[Jeff Wexler]

Hey, Ron, I think you get this weeks prize for the most colorful posts --- you possess a certain kind of prose that I find quite fun to read. I look forward to a continuation of our quest to "put a Mac Mini on everybody's cart."

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Ron Scelza]

Dear Jeff,

Thank you, It’s a privilege to be part of this knowledgeable group of professionals!

Sincerely

Ron Scelza

http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com

[pd170user]

Mr. Scelza I enjoyed your prose also. I visited your website and was impressed with the photo of

your sound cart. I enjoyed your post sir!

Greg Gross

[Ron Scelza]

Dear Greg,

  My cart is a simple three sectional design. It’s very functional and useful for boats, beaches and insert cars.  I have yet to configure it for multi-source energy transmission. Which I am now considering  fuel cells and solar panels. This might prove useful in supplying enough energy to run small towns in disasters... When I finally put an apple on my cart I will send you a picture…

Thank you for the nice thoughts

Sincerely

Ron Scelza

http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com

[Philip Perkins]

I went with the 12" PB w/superdrive, for size and power suck reasons.  The primary use for the PB was to be Metacorder, but I use it all the time now on jobs without Metacorder.  Playback, burning files from other NL recorders, on the spot conversions of BWFs to QTs for FCP editors, etc etc .  The PB goes on almost every job now, no matter how small, whether Metacorder comes along or not.  My cart set up gets re-scrummed for practically every job, so the flexibility and all-in-oneness of the PB is very important.  That said, I wish it didn't draw so much power.  For a quick location audio app. I like Audacity.  Peak I wasn't too crazy about.

I have ProTools 7 but really only ever use it in the studio, since I don't like lugging the MBox around.

Philip Perkins

[Guest tourtelot]

I am using five Cam-lok connectors (three hots, a neutral and the all important ground) on the cart so the Electricians only have to drop 0000 banded by me in eash new location.  They are happy to not have to carry around the extra 50' stnger that I used to need!

D.

[Ron Scelza]

Dear Philip,

The PB 12 seems to have made itself of great value to you... Thanks for sharing.  It appears to be a really neat little machine. Can’t beat its portability and low power consumption… The fan kicking on and off is a consideration in a previous post here. Can the power settings be adjusted for the screen and drives? Have you ever found it to be a nuisance?

Enjoy   

Sincerely

Ron Scelza

http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com

[Jeff Wexler]

The PowerBook that I use is the 12" also. I chose that one specifically because it was the smallest and lightest. I never had a problem with the fan and yes you can make certain adjustments with Energy Saver system preferences and keep things a little cooler. The first run of Aluminum PowerBokks in the 12" screen size ran very hot and there wasn't much that could be done about it. The joke was that even though it was the smallest of Apple's laptops you really couldn't keep it on your lap very long. Now with the Intel MacBooks coming out there is a lot of speculation as to what the various configurations will be, keeping in mind that it is almost a certainty that a mid-level laptop in iBook line up will be coming out before the school buying season. The new iBook is thought to have a 13" screen putting it inbetween the existing 12" and 14" iBooks.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Philip Perkins]

Dear Philip,

The PB 12 seems to have made itself of great value to you... Thanks for sharing.  It appears to be a really neat little machine. Can’t beat its portability and low power consumption… The fan kicking on and off is a consideration in a previous post here. Can the power settings be adjusted for the screen and drives? Have you ever found it to be a nuisance?

Enjoy   

Sincerely

Ron Scelza

http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com

So far so good.

Philip Perkins

[old school]

I have a 15 in power book on my cart that I use with  a Mbox with protools for playback. I will also be getting boomcorder soon, but mostly I surf the net when possible. Love Wi/Fi. Also my P.Book is almost a year old and is able to read DVD rams from the deva. This has come in handy a few times when telecine doesn't transfer wild track to dailies. I open the take from the folder, drag it to the desktop and it opens as a quicktime, which I import to I Movie and then send to whoever as a email. Being a commercial sound mixer these dayz.. this is my life on the set.

Reguards, old school...

[Ron Scelza]

Dear Douglas,

Thanks for thinking ahead and setting standards for production sound cart interface to remote electric power station standards.

The "oh so awsome neutral"...  Have you found any spurious sonar emmission threw the 0000 as it becomes a parasidic VLF antenna array? Any reports of submarines popping out of the water? 

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

http://ronscelzasoundrecording.com

[Ron Scelza]

Dear Jeff and all,

UPS just pulled up in a tiny brown truck, a very little man came out of the tiny brown truck with a very small box. I opened the box and found a tiny little computer The Power G4 12”... Wish me luck I still have to DL Boom Recorder interface it to The Cameo and the MOTU Traveler, Pack everything and drive for 22 hours to start a show on Monday…

Thank you all for the help

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

[Philip Perkins]

Dear Jeff and all,

UPS just pulled up in a tiny brown truck, a very little man came out of the tiny brown truck with a very small box. I opened the box and found a tiny little computer The Power G4 12”... Wish me luck I still have to DL Boom Recorder interface it to The Cameo and the MOTU Traveler, Pack everything and drive for 22 hours to start a show on Monday…

Thank you all for the help

Sincerely

Ron Scelza C.A.S.

Read up on how you clock the Traveler. 

Philip Perkins

[David Terry]

Read up on how you clock the Traveler. 

Philip Perkins

Phillip,

Tell me that I have not screwed up with MOTU.  Typically the eight tracks of analog get taken up with audio, and so I use AES input on Traveler for TC and Slate mic. to send TC and slate mic to traveler.  The kludge I use is routing slate mic into an input of PD-4, and TC into another input of PD-4, and send AES from PD-4 to Motu.  Since I can hear the slate and see TC reading in metacorder, I figured that word clock was not needed.  (Maybe there is a use for my PD-2, since it has workd clock

Back to the Mac/Cart thread.  I use a 12 inch i-Book.  I chose 12 inch for its small footprint, i-Book because I thought it was more beautiful than the PB.

This is my first Mac, and as a newbie I had some faulty assumptions.  Apple will not sell 12 inch i-Books with superdirves, and so I had the expense of an after market super dirve.  I upgraded to 1.5 gigs of RAM, and a 100gig HD.  The after market prices of these were better than Apple's.

I like the laptop so much that I rarely use the PC's on the network.  Even thought I was trying to stay within a certain budget for Mac/Metacorder, I purchased Office (Mac), Macromedia Studio 8 for Mac, and other apps so that I can use the laptop for non-recording stuff.  This means that I should get another Mac for a backup.   But should it be a mini or another laptop?  Either choice is attractive.  It depends on the most elegant way to configure the cart.

gotta run, UPS just delivered Venue/VRT.

David Terry

[OscarL]

Just found this via apples mac mini site...

http://minidock.jp/en/index.html

Could be useful for mounting on the cart...

/Oscar

[Philip Perkins]

Phillip,

Tell me that I have not screwed up with MOTU.  Typically the eight tracks of analog get taken up with audio, and so I use AES input on Traveler for TC and Slate mic. to send TC and slate mic to traveler.  The kludge I use is routing slate mic into an input of PD-4, and TC into another input of PD-4, and send AES from PD-4 to Motu.  Since I can hear the slate and see TC reading in metacorder, I figured that word clock was not needed.  (Maybe there is a use for my PD-2, since it has workd clock

Back to the Mac/Cart thread.  I use a 12 inch i-Book.  I chose 12 inch for its small footprint, i-Book because I thought it was more beautiful than the PB.

This is my first Mac, and as a newbie I had some faulty assumptions.  Apple will not sell 12 inch i-Books with superdirves, and so I had the expense of an after market super dirve.  I upgraded to 1.5 gigs of RAM, and a 100gig HD.  The after market prices of these were better than Apple's.

I like the laptop so much that I rarely use the PC's on the network.  Even thought I was trying to stay within a certain budget for Mac/Metacorder, I purchased Office (Mac), Macromedia Studio 8 for Mac, and other apps so that I can use the laptop for non-recording stuff.  This means that I should get another Mac for a backup.   But should it be a mini or another laptop?  Either choice is attractive.  It depends on the most elegant way to configure the cart.

gotta run, UPS just delivered Venue/VRT.

David Terry

I think I would tell the Traveler to clock to the AES input, and figure that the PD-4 was clocking its generated TC to its own word clock, so all will be good.  Are you working w/o a mixer?  I was wondering why you needed the PD4 for slate mic.

Philip Perkins

[David Terry]

I think I would tell the Traveler to clock to the AES input, and figure that the PD-4 was clocking its generated TC to its own word clock, so all will be good.  Are you working w/o a mixer?  I was wondering why you needed the PD4 for slate mic.

Philip Perkins

I was making an 8 track recording to Metacorder from the direct outs of the mixer to the analog inputs of Traveler.  There were no more analog inputs on Traveler for TC and slate so I sent TC and slate to Traveler's AES input.  I used PD-4 to generate TC and to translate it and the slate mic feed from the mixer to AES. (Talk about a weird PD-4 setup:  PD-4's TC output routed to PD-4 input #1, slate output from mixer routed to PD-4 input #2, finally PD-4 AES out routed to Traveler.)

Subequently I bought an i-mic, but have not used it.

David Terry