PHILIPPART Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Hello, I have a special request from a director. He wants to shoot in 24 FPS and record the project in 25 FPS. What frame rate do I have to use for sync? I use Tentaclesync box. I can set 24 or 25 FPS. Is the camera can accept TC if FPS and project FPS are at different. Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 What? He wants to shoot the movie in 24, and record what in 25? He wants the project frame rate to be 25 but the camera should record in 24fps? Or does he mean sound should be recorded in 25? I don’t really understand… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 I agree, this sounds like a nonsensical request. Talk to post if you can. If he's truly shooting 24fps into a 25fps timebase, most cameras simply won't accept jammed timecode because they are shooting off-speed. Make sure you get a solid slate clap for every take and skip the timecode boxes entirely. And tell the director to prepare for a post nightmare where all the audio is pulled up to match the video speed. Maybe he's thought this through and is expecting it, maybe not. If he's shooting in 24fps and *editing* at 25fps, match your sound rolls to the camera (i.e. 24fps) and let post deal with everything else; it's not your concern if he changes the frame rate later in his workflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 I mean you could shoot everything in 24 and treat it as a 24 project all the way up to final mix and grading where you’d do a pull-up to 25… but it sounds more like a directors’ thought that there is something to gain artistically. Which I don’t get… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPPART Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 Many thanks. Director confirm this so, from now, this become a post problem 🙂 "Camera set up at 25fps so it’s slightly undercranked at 24fps. Sound then has to be sped up by 4.16667% to hold sync." "We will shoot 24fps; camera project to be 25fps, sound to run at normal speed (will need repitch for sync)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB1 Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Weird, I just got this request a couple weeks ago to start an episodic. I wonder if there's something new in post that is driving this type of...confusion on production. As others have suggested, we shot it all in 24 and never heard anything else downstream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 If you really want to impress, record everything at 44.1kHz, and re-clock it to 48kHz in post. You'll get pitch shift *and* drift. For "artistic" purposes. (I'm joking, don't do this.) 6 hours ago, PHILIPPART said: Many thanks. Director confirm this so, from now, this become a post problem Not completely. If he's serious about shooting the whole thing undercranked, you no longer have a viable timecode workflow and you'll have to manually slate everything. Sounds like the director is aware and wants to do it this way, but from your perspective, you need to be more vigilent about making sure the slate calls and claps are totally clear on the record track, since manual sync is now the only viable workflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 But you can set your time code units to 24 as well, and you can absolutely edit and mix and do everything in 24 fps, I’ve done it a thousand times, but I don’t understand why, is all. You don’t have to manually skate everything. The camera can do 24 (unless something radical happened) and sound recorders too. I remember a short film we did where we shot everything in 23,98 (24) and then did two versions, one 24fps mix and grade which went to film festivals and DCP, and one 25 fps which went to broadcast. So maybe that’s the reason… but 24 or 25.. I mean if the script is great, the shots look awesome and it sounds fantastic then you could shoot it in 60fps probably. It’s not like one fps changes the whole look… but what do I know, I work with sound 2 hours ago, The Documentary Sound Guy said: Not completely. If he's serious about shooting the whole thing undercranked, you no longer have a viable timecode workflow and you'll have to manually slate everything. Sounds like the director is aware and wants to do it this way, but from your perspective, you need to be more vigilent about making sure the slate calls and claps are totally clear on the record track, since manual sync is now the only viable workflow. I think there was something lost in translation here, he doesn’t want to shoot it undercranked, he wants to shoot it 24 fps but deliver it in 25 fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 I think you're right about losing something in translation. This is what I was responding to: "Camera set up at 25fps so it’s slightly undercranked at 24fps. Sound then has to be sped up by 4.16667% to hold sync." That sounds like they are shooting 24 for 25 *in camera* ... but other quotes make it sound different, so I have no idea what's going on. Just trying to be cautious One possible reason for the workflow is if the show needs to deliver in 25fps, but needs to match pre-existing footage shot at 24fps. If you were intercutting between archive and fresh footage, you'd definitely notice a 4% pitch shift if you had the same voice in both sources. That's not to say it couldn't be pitch-corrected, but that comes with its own issues, so maybe shooting 24 for 25 is the compromise they reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 That is trully unnecessary confusion IMHO, but at the end of the day will be: What setting to you need me to apply? 24, 25, 48, 44.1, it's your project; tell me. 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 On 1/31/2023 at 10:33 PM, Olle Sjostrom said: I remember a short film we did where we shot everything in 23,98 (24) and then did two versions, one 24fps mix and grade which went to film festivals and DCP, and one 25 fps which went to broadcast. If you can shoot 25p use it for all : DCP and broadcast. There is no need to go 24p anymore (and since a long time) for cinema. Now if the director wants to get a "slowmotion effect" on the the film (of 1 frame per sec.????) Than it's his (strange) choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourtelot Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 Director: "I have a great idea. Why don't we shoot the whole picture with a washcloth over the lens. It'll be so cool." D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 12 hours ago, Patrick Tresch said: If you can shoot 25p use it for all : DCP and broadcast. There is no need to go 24p anymore (and since a long time) for cinema. Now if the director wants to get a "slowmotion effect" on the the film (of 1 frame per sec.????) Than it's his (strange) choice... I think we were just young and didn’t really think it through. It worked though, was my message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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