Wireless link to Camera

[soundwiz]

Hi Friends

I am a newbie to wireless link to camera and haven't ever used it

I am shooting a doc shot on High Def and the Cameraman insists on a

wireless link

I am working with the crew for the 1st time and it is going to be a

tough shoot

I don't know the camera person and wouldn't like to depend on him

for the monitoring off camera, i feel it is not his responsibility

So I am not able to decide on this

I feel safer wired

But would like to know the opinion of the more experienced pros

Also should I be doing a back up shooting on a Hi Def, for sound

quality, my earlier shoots were single system with Hi Def(wired ),no

backups,

is it a norm to use backup when  shooting on Hi Def?

Thanks in advance for all advices

Regards

Harry

[Eric Toline]

A backup won't hurt but will production pay for it if it's not needed? You need to work out those details before hand.

A wireless link is always "iffy" especially if you don't have some kind of confidence monitoring and that means another wireless hop back to you.

That said there are lots of mixers using wireless hops to camera with no problems. If you're using a good reliable wireless you should fine.

You might as well get your feet wet with wireless hops as it is fast becomming the defacto standard in eng/efp production.

Eric 

[tim apter]

eric is right, but i'd add that everything is DOUBLY true if you are using anything less than a zax stereoline. Its hard to be certain of no errors going to tape without someonoe listening ALL THE TIME - either a cam op that is good enough to monitor audio AND video, or you monitoring a return hop that will be in mono, and prob not too reliable itself.

[Bartek]

hello,

Whille 'wireless to camera' is becoming a  new standard for ENG and most sound proffessionals have a more diminishing no the matter there are a few ways we can protect ourselfs a  bit. First af all talk to production and post people and fully discuss the pros and cons, get a settings memo signed. Once the go ahead is given for that system concentrate on your wirelles. Find out what area you will be shooting in look up the best frequency range for that specific area get the right wireless system for the job.........and pray

Bartek

[t.elder]

Something to check is that you are using the right kind of cable to send the output of your mixer to your transmitters.  Most people send a line level signal to the camera but others feel that mic level is better.  Regardless of that issue, make sure the cables are the proper ones, and make sure the input level of your receivers is correctly set as well.

Tim

[tim apter]

Ive never heard of a mic level going into camera being better... is it just me? I've always heard and been taught that a line level signal is the better option. Right? Wrong? Am I missing something in your post other tim?

[Andrew Bellware]

Ive never heard of a mic level going into camera being better... is it just me? I've always heard and been taught that a line level signal is the better option. Right? Wrong? Am I missing something in your post other tim?

Cooper Sound will recommend you feed most cameras with mic level. It seems counterintuitive to do this, but in my experience feeding cameras with mic level is better.

The issue is, I believe, one of impedance as well as levels. No professional cameras (that I know of) will actually switch out the lousy mic preamps when one switches them to "line". Instead, they put in a pad. I've found that cameras are a lot harder to mix to at line level, and much easier at mic level. Of course, if you're using 100 feet of cable then maybe you'll want to go line level to the camera. Just beware of how you're hitting the camera. Prosumer cameras also have lousy electronics, but as with professional cameras, the Panasonics aren't as ugly as the Sonys or Ikegamis. I hate mixing to cameras. Ick!

Decks are a completely different thing. If you're mixing to a VTR, go ahead and feed it line level (offhand I can't think of a deck that'll take mic level anyway).

[Philip Perkins]

Cooper Sound will recommend you feed most cameras with mic level. It seems counterintuitive to do this, but in my experience feeding cameras with mic level is better.

The issue is, I believe, one of impedance as well as levels. No professional cameras (that I know of) will actually switch out the lousy mic preamps when one switches them to "line". Instead, they put in a pad. I've found that cameras are a lot harder to mix to at line level, and much easier at mic level. Of course, if you're using 100 feet of cable then maybe you'll want to go line level to the camera. Just beware of how you're hitting the camera. Prosumer cameras also have lousy electronics, but as with professional cameras, the Panasonics aren't as ugly as the Sonys or Ikegamis. I hate mixing to cameras. Ick!

Decks are a completely different thing. If you're mixing to a VTR, go ahead and feed it line level (offhand I can't think of a deck that'll take mic level anyway).

I've been mixing to cameras for a lot of years @ line level w/o issues except w/the Canon miniDVs.  When running a snake across a set full of HMIs, AC and etc I really want the signal in my cable to be line level.  I think you are right about line in being a padded mic in on the cameras, but they sound fine to me.

Philip Perkins

[Andrew Bellware]

I've been mixing to cameras for a lot of years @ line level w/o issues except w/the Canon miniDVs.  When running a snake across a set full of HMIs, AC and etc I really want the signal in my cable to be line level.  I think you are right about line in being a padded mic in on the cameras, but they sound fine to me.

Philip Perkins

That's just 'cause you're a much better mixer than me! ;-) Man, I just find mixing to cameras punishing.

You're right though, with HMI's there's just way too much garbage in the air to trust mic level. I will say that I've found more recent cameras to be less of a problem to send line level to than those old Sony (analog) Betacams (which is how I got on the "mic-level to camera" bandwagon in the first place.)

[soundwiz]

i have ben noting the discussion about line and mic level, soit is presumed that sending mic level when wireless is a safer bet than sending line level , due to impending mismatch/mic with pad termination  and such issues

so does that mean that as Andrew noted recording a mic level signal when wireless would be a lot worse than recording at line level when tethered

so are we compromising on quality when going wireless over wired setup as in being mic level when we should be at line level

maybe i missed out something?

i expereince with Mini DV camcorders have ben rather worrisome even after sending very hot levels and retuning monitoring on my SD 442 , on paly back i found in some cameras level extremely low,

oh those phone calls from edits suites, saying levels are low but manageable but very clean dialogues

dont want to hijackthe thread to another topic

maybe Phil Perkins(great stuff you write, kep it up, more power to yr comp) throw some light on this though

i guess this is a situation a lot of us face everyday with fear, recording way too low hwn lyou have send very hot levels(as per direct signal) ending upwith low levels on PB

thanks

Harry

[Andrew Bellware]

Wow, that's very informative Oleg. I'll keep that in mind. Suddenly, I feel very very old... ;-) But I'll also fear line levels to cameras less.

Thanks!

Drew

what was right with betacams ( beta sp came in 86  if i remeber correctly) , is completely wrong with digi betas and hd 750/900

blue ray xdcam and hdxd  cam

( dont know about panasonic 900 and 27 , never checked the schems )

they are all have line level and preamp in line  which is passed by

by the way, you can pass by the line inputs an  go digitally to the camera ( 700,790,970  digi beta , 750,900 hd , and of cours the xd which dont need any external equip)

most  of the new  compact hd and dv cameras in procumer level also have  line and mic separate cirquets and they sound not fur away what your dat gave  you 5 years ago .