Backup recorder?

[Steve Grider]

First, This might be ONE of the dumbest things I have ever heard... QUOTE from Steve... Sorry Steve, only an observation, I mean no actual hostility.... "My primary reason for one recorder is I don't want my clients to think  my recorder is so unreliable I need another one rolling at the same time  to get their job done."

It seems some folks care about what they think "Producers or Directors" will think if they 'SEE' another deck on the cart, ( I doubt if most know the difference between a 744T and a Comtek BST50), while other mixers are guarding their reputation themselves without regard to the observations of above the line folks...

Is client confidence important when it comes to this topic?

I think so.

Imagine yourself as a producer an you walk onto a set where the DP has ordered two keys, two backlights and two fills placed next to each other. You walk up and ask the DP, "WTF?".  He replies "I have them there just in case one blows during the middle of the interview".  As a producer, where is your confidence now? You are now on edge because you believe a problem is inevitable. If you came onto a set where you knew that backups were READILY AVAILABLE, but not VITAL, you would have more confidence in your crew and equipment.

We all sell ourselves as professionals with finely tuned ears, technical experience and state-of-the-art gear. If we imply that one of these elements is not up to par, clients may go shopping to find someone they are more confident with.

[Philip Perkins]

First, This might be ONE of the dumbest things I have ever heard... QUOTE from Steve... Sorry Steve, only an observation, I mean no actual hostility.... "My primary reason for one recorder is I don't want my clients to think  my recorder is so unreliable I need another one rolling at the same time  to get their job done."

It seems some folks care about what they think "Producers or Directors" will think if they 'SEE' another deck on the cart, ( I doubt if most know the difference between a 744T and a Comtek BST50), while other mixers are guarding their reputation themselves without regard to the observations of above the line folks...

Is client confidence important when it comes to this topic?

I think so.

Imagine yourself as a producer an you walk onto a set where the DP has ordered two keys, two backlights and two fills placed next to each other. You walk up and ask the DP, "WTF?".  He replies "I have them there just in case one blows during the middle of the interview".  As a producer, where is your confidence now? You are now on edge because you believe a problem is inevitable. If you came onto a set where you knew that backups were READILY AVAILABLE, but not VITAL, you would have more confidence in your crew and equipment.

We all sell ourselves as professionals with finely tuned ears, technical experience and state-of-the-art gear. If we imply that one of these elements is not up to par, clients may go shopping to find someone they are more confident with.

I don't quite understand this.  DPs and gaffers DO have backup plans if they lose an important lighting instrument--this happens all the time.  Electric trucks carry tie-ins in case the genny goes down.  Grips have some idea how they'd cover a shot if the 20 x 20 silk was  damaged or lost.  Those losses might require doing another take to compensate, but it seems to be an unfortunate fact of our film crew culture that additional takes for sound are frowned on more than those needed for picture.  Also: this L+G etc equipment is not usually seen as a reflection or aspect of those DPs, gaffers and grips: most of them are not using gear they own themselves, so they aren't expected to take heat for the gear not working.  Most of us ARE using gear we own, so equipment failures do reflect on us directly.  In 34 years I have never had anyone from production intimate that I might be less professional because I was rolling a backup machine--they are almost always glad for the extra insurance, even if some of you believe that confidence is mis-placed. 

Philip Perkins

[studiomprd]

" and the Roland R-09 is solid-state. How fast was this going? You would think sound just going to RAM would be no problem, short of an H-bomb. "

of course we really don't know why there was an issue on the solid state machine, as it could have been caused by a number of other things besides the SS media.

Yes, padding and cushioning equipment are always a good idea (isn't that what we do when we put them to bed in their nice cases??)

" they are almost always glad for the extra insurance, even if some of you believe that confidence is mis-placed. "

??

sorry, I don't understand that statement...

I'm with Mick (and others) believing that we are not judged by what toys we use.  The employers' confidence is in our ability to provide the right tools, and to get the job done professionally, much as it is for the DP, props, wardrobe, makeup, hair, etc..

so it is back to us!  it is our confidence in our equipment and our professional skills.  During the DAT era, we learned to not be so confident in DAT's!! (DOH!); now we are relearning to be confident of our recorders, now special purpose computers, and their firmware.  With no moving parts, and proven firmware, I feel more confident now than I was with NAGRA's!! When I install new firmware, my confidence may waver for a while, so I don't rush to always have the newest updates, even if they solve minor known issues.  If there is a major issue found with a new update/upgrade, I probably haven't switched to it yet!

[Sndspd]

Most of my work is bag/eng based so all I need is 2 tracks.

Bag:

Primary audio: camera (wireless or cabled)

Backup: TRX900/STA150 (wireless) and/or ZFR100.

Cart:

Primary: Fusion mix+ISO's

Backup: None

I have been pinched on several occasions when working in a bag without a card in the TR900 going wireless; my RX900s lost power when attached to the camera due to a bad power cable.  Lucky production didn't notice it.  Another wireless to camera occasion I thought my audio settings for camera were set right and they weren't for a one take scene.  I didn't get a call for that one and hopefully escaped that goat.

I haven't had issues with the Fusion when working in a bag so I don't roll a backup even though I could with the TRX900 or ZFR100.  When I'm going wireless to camera, the TRX900 is my backup.

I rarely do cart based work with my Fusion but on my next job, I will do a backup recorder even if it means my ZFR100.

Gabe

[Philip Perkins]

You all will be glad to know that this discussion also goes on on the Gearslutz location music recording forum.....backing up a 48 channel live multitrack is no joke.

Philip Perkins

[mikewest]

I've never run a backup recorder on the basis that if the main recorder spits the dummy

I would be sufficently aware to switch to another machine on standby.

I appreciate using two machines, one for ISO and another for a mix but with an 8 track recorder

is that not enough tracks.

A question ( having mixed so much to 1 or 2 tracks) - If you do a 1 or 2 track mix is is really polished

or just an attempt a a mixa??

Jeff you may have views and experince on this approach as an original sound mixer!!!!!

mike

[ptalsky]

So I haven't posted for a while, but am going to jump back into the fray.

My primary recorder is Boom Recorder, usually mirrored recording (external HD and internal HD on my Mac).  I also run an HDP2 but have been thinking about going with the new ZFR200, jamming it and just letting it run since you can get 12+ hours on it and the Zaxcom software can chase to a specific TC point (so I've been told).  This eliminates the need to "run" a backup since it will always be running.  Has anyone tried this or given it any thought?

Thanks, and hope everyone is doing well...

Phil (the other Phil from Northern CA)