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questions re Sony PCM D50 recorder


Peter Mega

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Hi everyone,

I'm considering buying a Sony PCM-D50 to use in a car to record two people in the front seats. I wont bore you with all the details why but it needs to be a stand alone set up so thats why I'm thinking of this unit. I know plugging in my Sanken CUB01 might sound better but the ease of this unit might be what we need for this show I'm about to start.

So, my questions are:

1. Has anyone used this unit in a car, attached to the dashboard, between two people with the mics facing each person? (Will have the car stereo off, windows closed and air con/fan speed off)

2. How will this set up sound?

3. Same question as # 1 but with fan speed on lowest? (In case of very hot day with windows closed)

4. Does the fact that it doesn't have individual level control been a problem?   

5. What is largest size Sony Memory Stick PRO-HG Duo available?

6. Any other issues with this unit?

    Thanks in advance,

  Regards

  Peter Mega

   

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" How will this set up sound? "

it depends...

but it won't sound much different no matter what recorder you choose...

"  Same question as # 1 but with fan speed on lowest? "

it depends...

a lot like it does with the fan off, but with fan noise!

depends on, among other things, how much noise the fan makes...

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Fan vents are typically right where you'd want the recorder to be.  Perhaps some sort of rig overhead, if being on camera is not a huge issue?  Or maybe two COS-11 in the visors with cables run to the recorder?  If the car is quiet and the voices loud enough, I really like to be able to leave the AC on low.  It's typically quieter than the road noise, and makes everyone VERY happy.  Even the willingness to "try one with it on" will make people more accepting of turning it off if it's bad.

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1. Has anyone used this unit in a car, attached to the dashboard, between two people with the mics facing each person? (Will have the car stereo off, windows closed and air con/fan speed off)

I have one and use it regularly to gather sounds... but NO

2. How will this set up sound?

Well... 

3. Same question as # 1 but with fan speed on lowest? (In case of very hot day with windows closed)

Well + fan noise, and as observed already, depends on too many variables - car, rigging, etc. But fan noise IS noise, and you will hear it in the recording, how ever much or less it is... 

4. Does the fact that it doesn't have individual level control been a problem?    

NOT or the way i use it. 

5. What is largest size Sony Memory Stick PRO-HG Duo available?

Hey, hey, you dont want to call the manufacturer, do you? This you have to research on your own buddy... come on... 

6. Any other issues with this unit?

NONE as I have used it...

If you HAVE TO HAVE TO do this, you may consider using a rig that can screw on to the PCM50 back (1/4"). Like a PSC fleximount... 

-vin

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I've done it with mine and it picked up a lot of road rumble.

Having said that it was a dodgy old VW Passat tdi on a duel-carridgeway at 60-70 mph.

In a BMW at 30 mph you will get less road rumble off the wheels.

I have a way of recording with two ecm77 or MKE2 wired (with built in pre-amp and AA battery), to an xlr female x2 - stereo mini jack lead which works well straight into the d50. Might be an idea if you have any wired lavs to rig a car like that and then leave it.

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It's a nice field recorder. The built in XY stereo pair is very very sensitive and you will no doubt pick up EVERYTHING in the car's passenger compartment.

It's also not that cheap. You can get a Zoom H4n for a lot less and the H4n is a four channel recorder. The H4n can also take in two conventional XLR condenser mics with  48v phantom whereas the D-50 only has a stereo mini jack with PIP.

Instead of the D-50, I would suggest you use the H4n and put a couple of small lavs like the Countryman B6 on the talent. You can also simultaneously record using the H4n's XY pair, so you get a "field" recording of the car's interior. Then mix to taste.

I'm in production on a documentary right now where I am using the D-50 (which belongs to the producer) alongside my H4n. I am hooking the D-50 up to the tape out of my field mixer and recording 2 channel backups that way. The H4n is doing utility as an ambient and supplemental recorder during the shoots.

I wouldn't worry about SONY memory sticks. I just use the D-50's built in storage and offload the files via USB. I haven't run out of space yet.

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Thanks for the replies/info.

Re calling the manufacturer - if you've ever had to call Sony Australia, you'll know why I'm asking here!! Its a bit like calling a public service department. You get the run around unfortunately.

I'll have to give a bit more info regarding the shoot. It will be 2 contestants, in and out of the car all day, going from location to location. There is a crew to shoot them doing their business out of the car so they are wired for that but this crew is not in the car travelling with the contestants.

There is a mini cam on the dash board (with no external inputs) and this is where I need to use a recorder. I've thought of extra receivers dialled into contestant TX's or Sanken CUB01's stuck to the roof or other lav mics stuck in the visor but the thing is, its a different car every day with two new contestants every day and also different crews.

So the PCM D50 is a quick and easy solution, which even the producer can set up if need be.

I will be elsewhere while this is all happening so thats another reason why I'm trying to keep it simple.

Today I called some suppliers and ofcourse no one has this unit in the showroom for me to look/listen to and test record. I have to pay a deposit and order one before thay will order one in, great hey!! Looks like I might have to buy it sight unseen.

Any other thoughts how I might approach this?

Thanks again

Peter Mega

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I used mine as my primary in bag back up recorder before I got my SD552. Worked a charm in a pelican mini-vault with a remote control unit.

As for the on board mics, they sound great, I used it for atmos tracks on a few docos, but it will record every little handling noise if it moves and I recommend the sony or after market wind jammer to protect the mics. Start record on the card and I think it automatically continues on the onboard memory. The battery life is amazing.

Pat Slater

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" Re calling the manufacturer - if you've ever had to call Sony Australia, you'll know why I'm asking here!! "

advice like that is applied to professional products, not consumer products (even so called Pro-Sumer stuff) althouh for that stuff "tech support" is often pretty good, and even helpful.

" Any other thoughts how I might approach this? "

there are numerous options, and no one will be viewing/listening to the show thinking: "this would sound better if he had used xxx instead.

so, you can order one of the Sony's, or select another recorder you can preview, and buy it. or you could hide a 552 in the vehicle, and carefully rig some mic's (schoeps, B6, EMW, COS-11d, in the sun visors (the audience still will not know the difference) or hide a SD 702, or 744, or (fill in the blank!).  you could hide little Zaxcom ZRF-100 recorders w/ DPA mic's (the audience will still not be able to tell any difference!!  wow! so many options...

and if you can wait until the end of the month: http://www.proaudio.com/product_info.php?products_id=8927

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and if you can wait until the end of the month: http://www.proaudio.com/product_info.php?products_id=8927

Thanks Senator,

The new Samson Zoom H1 looks pretty cool, especially the fact that it records to micro SD instead of the Sony only card the D50 uses.

Not sure if the H1 will hit our shores in time though. I'm still leaning towards the D50 at this stage.

The Sony memory stick PRO duo cards are available in 8gb which would give about 12 hrs recording time at 16bit/48k which is more than enough for 1 day, even if we leave it recording the whole time.

Thanks again to everyone for your replies.

Cheers

Peter Mega

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Does the dash cam have an onboard mic?

It does but they're not happy with it. (no external inputs either)

The fact that I'm not setting this up on the day/s is part of why they're not happy with the audio from the onboard mic. Last series, one if the camera operators put gaffer tape over the onboard mic which of course rendered it useless and since that day, production has a bitter taste in their mouth regarding the onboard mic. If I was there, I could've avoided this happening!!

Thanks for everyone for your input. It looks like I'll be using the D50. My next question is:

Does anyone have an idea of how to suspend/shock mount the D50 to a dash board of a car?

I've searched high and low for some kind of easy mount but have come up with nothing so far and bearing in mind I wont be there to set this up on the day/s.

Needs to be relatively low profile and easy enough for a producer to mount it if need be.

Thanks again

Peter Mega

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Peter, I had mentioned the PSC fleximount earlier. But i am not happy with your situation - with a producer doing it.

The fleximount has an 1/4 stud option that will fit directly into your Sony. And other such recorders that have a mount stud in their bottom surfaces. It is then a matter of how to and where to clamp the fleximount to the car.

Beyond this, I can't help you my friend, especially if someone else is going to do it. There is no round peg round hole situation here as you can see.

-vin

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in case it is not clear in my last post here,  the problem isn't with the arrows, its the non-archers using them!

The Producers weren't happy with the results: " The fact that I'm not setting this up on the day/s is part of why they're not happy with the audio  "

it is all right there, but they don't get it!

" gaffer tape over the onboard mic "

DOH!! (again!)

putting Gaffer tape over the Sony's mic's would have the same result!

" since that day, production has a bitter taste in their mouth regarding the onboard mic. "

amateurs! and perhaps a few fry's short of a regular order!

They should have a bitter taste regarding Gaffer Tape!!  They should get their DP to find a better tape, maybe Gorilla Tape...

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Thanks again guys, I'll take your comments on board.

Regarding the mount, I was hoping to have some kind of suspension mount to try and reduce/isolate the transfer of noise/knocks from the bumps in the road.

From what I've read here and other reviews about the D50 are that its handling noise isn't great.

I'm now looking into the swan neck type GPS mounts for cars, and maybe modifying one of those. Lets see what happens!!

Thanks again

Cheers

Peter Mega

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Hey Peter

I would try some of that 1/2" Neoprene foam with adhesive backing, stick it straight on the back of the recorder then use more double sided tape or velcro. Might reduce vibrations a bit, but I'm sure it will sound better than the HDV cams Onboard mic! Are the mics on the Sony cardioid or omni? I forget... anyways, good luck!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi folks,

Thanks again to everyone for your help and comments.

Just thought I'd show what I came up with for mounting the PCMD50 for this show I'm about to start.

Its a weighted GPS mount which simply sits on the dash board of a car. It has spongy stuff where the recorder sits and the side holders have squishy rubber stuff to hold the recorder. Although not the greatest, it does offer some isolation. Obviously not like having our 416's in proper suspension mounts but its acceptable. I've done a few test recordings in my 13 year old Subaru Impreza manual shift with stiff springs and its not the smoothest car to drive but the recordings were surprisingly clean. Not too many road car/knocks in the sound. Dialog is nice too. First real use is Thursday, so we’ll see what happens!!

CheersPeter Mega

post-3356-130815088273_thumb.jpg

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