Basic 5D recording questions

[Bob]

  Hi all,

I am new to posting to this board but I have been reading it for quite some time. I’ve searched past posting and I am not quite sure if I have all the correct answers. So I have what may seem like stupid and basic questions regarding recording on the 5D.

In the past I have always recorded sound directly into the camera. Now I have a job coming up in a few weeks where we will be using the 5D (I am being told it will have the latest firmware). Production will be renting me a sound devices 744t (which I have not used before – but I’ve looked at the manual on line and researched it and I believe I can figure it out).

As of now production doesn’t know where they will be posting and my not have a house on board until after we wrap so I can’t ask what does post want.

So my first question is what framerate / bit rate/ sample rate I need to set the recorder on?

Since the 5D doesn’t have any time code does it really matter what it set it on?

How can I be sure that the audio will sync?

I plan on sending a scratch track to the 5D as well. I was going to go hardline into the 5D (but for some handheld  scenes with I was going to use either a comtek  or a spare lecto 190 I have laying around) – so with the latest firmware what level do I need to send to the 5D and what menu setting need to be adjusted? 

Lastly will production take the files on the CF card or should I burn them disks – keeping in mind post is still not on board with this project yet.

Any other advice?

Thanks in advance for what may seem like basic questions.

Bob

[Eric Toline]

The 5d mkII has 29.97 and 23.97 frame rates. Find out which they're using and match it on your recorder. There is also a manual input level adjustment with metering available in the menu somewhere, a mic level input is best. I would burn a disk or dl to a hard drive or computer and keep the CF until you know all is good.

Eric

[ProSound]

So my first question is what framerate / bit rate/ sample rate I need to set the recorder on?

Since the 5D doesn’t have any time code does it really matter what it set it on?

Set your 744T to 24 bit 48khz Audio

The 5D runs at 23.97 or 29.97 ask production which they are using and match it

Make sure you have a slate and it will all sync up,

A Comtek or any wireless will work for Scratch track. I use a G2 Wireless since it is already 1/8in and fits nicely into 5D hot Shoe

The 744T will mirror to both CF and INT HD while recording so I usually just pass off CF card every time camera changes cards and then they can dump the audio at the same time as the footage it comes with. Usually at end of the day I dump the INT HD via firewire as well to another folder on production HD or computer in case the editor misplaces something that way they have it all in one place. I usually archive all the audio at my studio as well on a HD and wait till the project airs in case production has a major data loss (Which I have had happen before). Overall it is an easy camera to work with have fun

[chriskellett]

Send post this link, http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html    -  Sit back and relax.  I have not used a TC slate on most DSLR job in months after people have discovered this program and how well it seems to work and unless the camera is far enough away from the talent / action, I do not even send a scratch track to the camera, I let the onboard mic do it's thing for the program.

[studiomprd]

" Production will be renting me a sound devices 744t (which I have not used before "

then you need to spend some quality face time with a 744T before the first shoot day!

16 bit is more industry standard than 24 bit audio, 48kHz is industry standard!  16 bit will use 50% less file space, and the audio quality is really not a factor, as there will be other factors on your shoot making much more significant degradations to the audio quality making the potential improvement a moot issue!

even if the TC is not being used, the framerate must be correct, and with the 5D (which has no TC, but does have a frame rate!)you need to use a non-integer frame rate. 29.97 or 23.976 (aka 23.98) are the non-integer frame rates, and either one will work, but I'm sure they will like the sound of 23.976 better...no TC slate needed, but a standard clap slate will be appropriate.

production is responsible for providing the media, so it is up to them what they want it to be... CF, burn DVD's (of various formats), or hard drives (usually external, but that is up to them!)  you may provide media as often (or not) as they want it, and they will have the entire project available on the 744T's HD, which must be downloaded before turning in the recorder to the rental facility.

[Philip Perkins]

Set your 744T to 24 bit 48khz Audio

The 5D runs at 23.97 or 29.97 ask production which they are using and match it

Make sure you have a slate and it will all sync up,

A Comtek or any wireless will work for Scratch track. I use a G2 Wireless since it is already 1/8in and fits nicely into 5D hot Shoe

The 744T will mirror to both CF and INT HD while recording so I usually just pass off CF card every time camera changes cards and then they can dump the audio at the same time as the footage it comes with. Usually at end of the day I dump the INT HD via firewire as well to another folder on production HD or computer in case the editor misplaces something that way they have it all in one place. I usually archive all the audio at my studio as well on a HD and wait till the project airs in case production has a major data loss (Which I have had happen before). Overall it is an easy camera to work with have fun

This is how we've worked on hundreds of 5D days now.  I'd say your biggest issue would be learning 744T before your job--try to get it early and try everything out.  One note w/ the 5D--the only way you can really know that you are getting audio to it is to record something and play it back!  Since it is easy to scramble the settings during card and battery swaps on the camera, make them do a little test playback for you once in awhile to make sure no audio setting has been changed.

Philip Perkins

[Marc Wielage]

I agree with Philip and the Senator. The menus on the 744t can initially be a bit daunting. Take an afternoon to sit down and go through every single page of the Sound Devices manual with the machine to make sure you have a good idea of how everything needs to be set up, and make some test recordings. In particular, make sure you get the whole monitoring set up for headphones. You can listen to different combinations of tracks, which can be useful, but not something you want to fumble with on a hectic set.

--Marc W.

[André Boisvert]

It's unfortunate that IA 695 closed off it's video tutorials to members only. The one I saw was a great help to me on my first 744t shoot.

[wolfvid]

revised 5D 7D info

http://wolfvid.com/datasheets/FAQ_CANON_7D_VideoAssist_Notes.pdf

wolf

 

[Pat Slater]

Side discussion, I recently recorded 2 tracks onto my SD552 with dumb slate and stereo send to 5D DSLR.

SDHC card transferred to laptop and hard drive

I assume that post can add the frame rate needed.? No calls from edit so far with issues..

Pat Slater

[studiomprd]

" I assume that...  "

ASS U ME ...

actually, any or no frame rate is necessary, as there would be no pull-down, or pull-up, needed.

[Bob]

Thank you all for your fast and informative posts. It is really helpful to know that there is a resource like this available to newbes like me.

Bob

[Philip Perkins]

Side discussion, I recently recorded 2 tracks onto my SD552 with dumb slate and stereo send to 5D DSLR.

SDHC card transferred to laptop and hard drive

I assume that post can add the frame rate needed.? No calls from edit so far with issues..

Pat Slater

Did you turn off the TC generator in your 552, so you were making standard wav files w/o any kind of TC metadata?  If so, then you should be good to go w/ yr dumb slate.  Post would not add a TC framerate to the file, they'd just ingest it and sync it up to your scratch track.  If you left the TC generator on then the mixer's default rate is 30, which is incompatible w/ the current 5D frame rates (29.97 and 23.98), and that might be an issue in Final Cut.

I'm sure the job you are talking about is probably all good, but remember that no call from post does NOT necessarily mean that everything was fine.  Pro-level posties solve the problems in front of them and let the producers assign blame and punishment.  We don't usually call the production mixer unless there is something we think we can learn from them that will help us put things right faster--otherwise we usually don't bother (too busy trying to get back on schedule).  I've had situations where I inadvertently caused problems for post and didn't hear about it until an embarrassingly long time later....  If you have a concern I'd recommend calling post yourself and asking how things went w/ your files.

Philip Perkins

[Eric Toline]

The 552 has no TC generator. It will accept external TC but can't generate TC on it's own.

Eric

[Matt Mayer]

The 552 has no TC generator. It will accept external TC but can't generate TC on it's own.

Eric

Depends on the firmware revision.

In 1.0 and 1.1, a timecode stamp in bEXT and iXML was derived from the RTC in the absence of a timecode signal.

This was changed in 1.2:

"in the absence of a time code signal, timecode & speed related  metadata is not written. This is to prevent Final Cut Pro from  introducing unintended sound file speed changes.  The 552 continues to write the time-of-day value as a start time  code stamp in bEXT when when time code is absent."

[Eric Toline]

Depends on the firmware revision.

In 1.0 and 1.1, a timecode stamp in bEXT and iXML was derived from the RTC in the absence of a timecode signal.

This was changed in 1.2:

"in the absence of a time code signal, timecode & speed related  metadata is not written. This is to prevent Final Cut Pro from  introducing unintended sound file speed changes.  The 552 continues to write the time-of-day value as a start time  code stamp in bEXT when when time code is absent."

I stand semi-correctd.

Eric