Constantin Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 So, no one's ever had problems with cable noise, because it's a matter of technique. Is this technique so easy that it doesn't need to be practiced at all? Or did you practice this at home before ever booming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkal Taskin Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 hour ago, Constantin said: So, no one's ever had problems with cable noise, because it's a matter of technique. Is this technique so easy that it doesn't need to be practiced at all? Or did you practice this at home before ever booming? I have been trying this "technique" since I own a noisy boom pole now and its basically about moving around without making the internal cable wobble inside the pole. You just need smoother swings... I am not sure how it will perform when you need to run around but I guess its a compromise for not having to deal with cable. I am thinking if there was another sort of coiled cable that was coiled almost as large as the poles interior, it would move around less but then it might obstruct the sections when collapsing the pole. Maybe someone has an idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Well, as the pole colapses, the interior space will get tighter and tighter, while the cable will basically do the opposite :P. So the limit is basically how much cable you can have crammed in the pole when it's fully collapsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 You're right, Rasmus, it's two realities at odds with each other: "as the pole colapses, the interior space will get tighter and tighter, while the cable will basically do the opposite". So true. We have experimented with different materials for the coiled cable but for the most part a material that solves potential noise problems introduces other problems like durability issues, shielding issues, etc. It is for all these reasons that I have continued to use the original internal cable design which is a straight cable, not coiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard-NYNY Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 an internal pulley/spooler system using a very thin cable, one per section, would be would be the correct mechanical solution if electronics had nothing to do with it. but add in electronics, soldering, pumping the signal through the pulley/spooler sections would increase the likelihood of outright failure due to tension/wear and tear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Flowers Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 My preference, for what it is worth (probably 0), is to have a curly cable attached to the outside of the pole with cable ties so that when the pole is fully extended so is the cable. The cable ties are at the tightening rings for each section so that even when the pole is not at full extent the cable is supported. It is ugly, but it works...not unlike myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 "It is ugly, but it works..." well, I would have to see it to believe it. Seems like there could be a really nasty bunch up right around the cable tie/knuckles that would be every changing with whatever extension you might have. Also, the properties of "curly-ness" change over time so it might be a system that ages badly. Just my observation (having never actually seen this approach or ever used it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Electrical to optical converter that shoots light down the hollow tube of the pole and is received by an optical to electrical receiver at the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I used externally cabled booms for decades, long and short, partly because external was the choice of my long-time boom op and partly because it seemed the least problematic way to go. When working more OMB jobs it became clear to me that internal cable was easier for me to deal with when bagging it--with a coily between boom-butt and the bag. I had to change how I boomed--no more rabbity-fast moves of the whole pole, and you have to be very aware of how you are holding (and shock-absorbing) the pole when moving. That said I have done some running moves and gotten away with them--it is possible. If you aren't careful you will get cable rattle for sure, so a little practice helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Flowers Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 hours ago, Jeff Wexler said: "It is ugly, but it works..." well, I would have to see it to believe it. Seems like there could be a really nasty bunch up right around the cable tie/knuckles that would be every changing with whatever extension you might have. Also, the properties of "curly-ness" change over time so it might be a system that ages badly. Just my observation (having never actually seen this approach or ever used it). I find that I have explained the system I use badly. I have been using it for about 20 years with no troubles and the bunching at the joints when the pole is retracted is no problem and certainly not particularly nasty. It is the best compromise I have found after much trial and error. Perhaps I have been fortunate in my curly cable which seems to have the same properties that it possessed when I first bought it: it extends and coils up nicely and at the pole joints it is stiff enough not to slap against the pole. Should I have mentioned that the pole itself is a Panamic and at full extension is 7'6" - more or less the maximum I can cope with one handed and a 416 in its Rycote at the end? I concede that a longer pole, such as one used by a boom op on a feature film, might not answer well to this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkal Taskin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 18 hours ago, Jeff Wexler said: You're right, Rasmus, it's two realities at odds with each other: "as the pole colapses, the interior space will get tighter and tighter, while the cable will basically do the opposite". So true. We have experimented with different materials for the coiled cable but for the most part a material that solves potential noise problems introduces other problems like durability issues, shielding issues, etc. It is for all these reasons that I have continued to use the original internal cable design which is a straight cable, not coiled. I don't get how straight cable can work, where does the cable go when you collapse? Is it a very thin cable, like some sort of high strength lavaliere cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Mega Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 It's a normal mic cable. If you primarily do reality and doc work, forget the straight cable. Drama and films is about the only type of work you'd be able to use it. The cable exits the bottom of the pole and to describe what happens in a very course way, it ends up on the floor when the pole is retracted thus needs to be wrapped/coiled up like a loose mic cable for example. You our would get very frustrated with it in reality/doc work. Stick to your internal coily cable. I have a K-Tek K152CCR and love it. At times, I'm quite an aggressive boom swinger in reality TV and have very minimal noise from it, if any. The benefits of not having external csble to deal with in these situations far outweighs the occasional knock/slap from the internal cable. You will get used to it. Get a good mount also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkal Taskin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 23 minutes ago, Peter Mega said: It's a normal mic cable. If you primarily do reality and doc work, forget the straight cable. Drama and films is about the only type of work you'd be able to use it. The cable exits the bottom of the pole and to describe what happens in a very course way, it ends up on the floor when the pole is retracted thus needs to be wrapped/coiled up like a loose mic cable for example. You our would get very frustrated with it in reality/doc work. Stick to your internal coily cable. I have a K-Tek K152CCR and love it. At times, I'm quite an aggressive boom swinger in reality TV and have very minimal noise from it, if any. The benefits of not having external csble to deal with in these situations far outweighs the occasional knock/slap from the internal cable. You will get used to it. Get a good mount also. Ahhh OK so its basically like using normal cable except its partially inside instead of being wrapped around the pole. I wonder if using a very soft lav cable is worth trying. If its soft enough to collect at the bottom as it collapses and loose enough to not shake within the pole, it just might work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Mega Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Well if you're like me and extend and retract the pole at very fast speed, the lav cable idea would last about a minute. I wouldn't bother, speaking for myself only of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkal Taskin Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 6 minutes ago, Peter Mega said: Well if you're like me and extend and retract the pole at very fast speed, the lav cable idea would last about a minute. I wouldn't bother, speaking for myself only of course. Well if the cable is stretched then you are right, but I think it will be safe if you use cable that is maybe 30cm longer than the maximum length of the pole, this might also stop it from shaking inside the pole as it will be loosely collected there. I think it should be a soft cable like the COS11 ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I use an internally coiled vdB pole for OMB gigs. The coiled cable is worth every cent. I haven't had any issues so far but I also try to keep the top end of the pole light (try avoiding a full zep) because I imagine when fully extended with a heavy top end my arms might start shaking and there could be that flap. For drama shoots with a dedicated boom op I would prefer either no cable (transmitter on mic) or straight cable outside of the boom. YMMY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjafreddan Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 10 hours ago, Peter Mega said: You our would get very frustrated with it in reality/doc work. Stick to your internal coily cable. I have a K-Tek K152CCR and love it. At times, I'm quite an aggressive boom swinger in reality TV and have very minimal noise from it, if any. The benefits of not having external csble to deal with in these situations far outweighs the occasional knock/slap from the internal cable. You will get used to it. Get a good mount also. +1 I'm also a run and gun boom swinger and the K-Tek boom works really well for me too. Her name is Doris and no one is allowed to swing her except me. We've been through some quite tough situations. :-) Like Peter says, get a good mic mount, it will help decouple some of the cable noise. Shotgun mics are sensitive to low-end rumble, some models are more sensitive and some are less sensitive. I use a Rycote Lyre suspension and a DPA 4017B microphone with a built-in low-cut at 50Hz. Then I low-cut at 80Hz in my SD664. Cheers Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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