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Cannon D5 and D7 Bloop Slate Wish List


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After a nearly 10 year hiatus, we are going to bring back our PSC Digislate (documentary style bloop slate with scene and take numbers)  We last sold these almost a decade ago.  Well it seems that all the D5 and D7 users need a bloop slate once again.  We cannot just re-release the old design as many of the parts are no longer available.  So its time to start a new design.  So far we have had requests for 2 digits, a bloop tone (both wired and an audible tone from the box itself) and so on.  If you have any ideas on what you would like to see included in the design, please post you ideas here or email me at:    ron at professionalsound dot com

Thanks for any input you have

All for now

Ron Meyer

Professional Sound Corp

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- humor appreciated!

I think this is a great idea to bring back as a product.  I've been thinking of cobbling together a bloop slate myself for awhile now.. even bought a simple oscillator and LED VU meter kits from canakit to use as the building blocks but haven't had the time to really get at it..

Some ideas:

- Modular connections:  to allow the audio output to use cables with a variety of terminating connectors..  I was planning on using the link-in/mix-in on my 302 and 552 (TA3 and TA5 connectors respectively).  I can also see it being useful to be able to output the bloop tone to a radio transmitter to be able to put it on the camera's guide track directly.  More than one output may be useful in that case.

- Silent when not in use.  To be able to inject the bloop into the mix-in it would have to be dead quiet when not in use.  Completely out of the signal chain when the momentary is not pushed would be best.  ..Often won't be able to sacrifice a mixer input just for the bloop so the mix-in may be the best bet.

- 12V DC input:  to power from a BDS or similar system

- Modular light connection:  I can think of situations where it may be advantageous to remote the LED (or whatever lighting element is used) to a location other than on the box itself.  On the harness strap for example.. or even the end of a boom pole.

- Make it small.  Too many things in the bag already.

- TC reader?

Curious to see what others come up with for a modern bloop slate.

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- Modular connections:  to allow the audio output to use cables with a variety of terminating connectors..  I was planning on using the link-in/mix-in on my 302 and 552 (TA3 and TA5 connectors respectively).  I can also see it being useful to be able to output the bloop tone to a radio transmitter to be able to put it on the camera's guide track directly.  More than one output may be useful in that case.

- Silent when not in use.  To be able to inject the bloop into the mix-in it would have to be dead quiet when not in use.  Completely out of the signal chain when the momentary is not pushed would be best.  ..Often won't be able to sacrifice a mixer input just for the bloop so the mix-in may be the best bet.

- 12V DC input:  to power from a BDS or similar system

I 2nd most of which Derek says ability to use Mix in on any sound devices mixer and powering it via a BDS system would be high on my list.

3 sets of outputs too it would be great if the unit had a XLR Output, Ta3 output and a 1/8in output as I could see many people using a G2 wireless to send the beep directly to the camera.

Ability to automatically count from whatever number you set it on so you don't have to manually change take numbers. On many 5D projects they have no shot list so I just start with "1" and go from there.

It would be great Ron if you could post a list of features that you would like to include so we could talk about it as well.

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When multiple cameras are in use it would be good to have a system that makes an inaudible, or potentially inaudible bloop tone. In the old days there was a system for the Eclair and Nagra that momentarily suspended the Pilotone track. Resolving hardware - the SLO, at least, and maybe others - would recognize that sync track suspension and activate a marker pen that would mark the mag track at the bloop tone.

Since time code in non-linear systems is only a start mark stamp and not a continuous recording, that same technique is not really available. I pass it on really just because I was impressed at how clever it was and to illustrate that the objective ought to be within our capabilities since it has already been accomplished thirty (or forty?) years in the past.

Possibly you might take a page from the Landakers and their thumper system. When multiple cameras are in use, one might select a special low frequency tone, possibly 50Hz instead of 1kHz, so that the bloop tone could be eq'd out of the track. That way one could activate a slate for B camera even while A camera was still running.

David Waelder

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-How about internal or external power?

-Would brightness control be useful?  Maybe color choice for the light (led I assume).

-Small form factor and lightweight, for bag use.

My thoughts exactly.

I can't imagine this box drawing much. Holding it at arm's length, with one cable for the beep and another for power is one cable too many for my use. Int/Ext power switch.

A brightness switch is a must for proper indoor/outdoor use.

3 sets of outputs too it would be great if the unit had a XLR Output, Ta3 output and a 1/8in output as I could see many people using a G2 wireless to send the beep directly to the camera.

I'm probably missing something, but why would you want to send the camera only the beep, instead of all your sound with the beep? Output the mixer like we do now.

I used a bloop slate years ago that had a "y" on it. One went in the mixer (or a Nagra at the time), and other was for the boom (or RF) - no lost input. This approach would be universal to all mixers.

A simple (and cheap) box with 3 numbers (I'd prefer 3 over 2) that moves up the numbers automatically.

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Ok call me stupid ....

But what is a bloop slate and how is it different than a regular slate

Not me.......;)  Just to make sure there is no confusion....

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Thank you for all the replies so far.  Please keep the information and ideas coming. 

Our "DigiSlates" were bloop lights that had built in 7 segement readouts for scene and take numbering purposes.  They also had a slate mic, tone oscillator and sync interupt capabilities.  Here are a few photos form about 1992 (3 Digit LED model) and 1998 (2 Digit LCD model)

DSCN0374.jpg

DSCN0375.jpg

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Ron,

I'd buy the one from 1992 as is. 8oz weight is great! I'd like a 3 number instead of 2 so I can have a scene number and a take over 9. Even though it says 250hours on (1) 9v external power as an option would be great. What did the 1992 version sell for?

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*Hi Rose 12v powering (when velcro'd to bag) & 9v battery power (independent hand held)

*low power consumption - light and 3 number - manual and auto advance choice?

*about iphone width and height but depth to accommodate 9v battery and audio connectors (xlr even?)

*brightness control

*audible tone - variable frequency - but with switch to turn it off

*outputs - mix-out to SD / xlr line out to multitrack/other / and 3.5mm jack to G2/3 simultaneously

*slate mic

I'll buy one straight away even if some above features are not practical :)

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This is an interesting idea, Ron, to reissue a familiar piece of equipment that could possibly help in the syncing process today.

As I'm not an inventor or manufacturer, I'm not sure this would be possible, but it would seem to me that since time code is used on every modern recorder that a time code reader window would be of a greater benefit that just numbers.

If you changed the orientation of the "window" to be lengthwise, rather than widthwise(sp?), I think there would be enough room for a small reader display.  If we're to assume that the sound crew would be "wearing" the bloop light, then it would be simple to connect it to a time code output from their recorder.

I realize this may be too much of manufacturing job than you care to take on, and I imagine that display size might be a challenge, but I think that would be a great update to the classic bloop light.

Just an idea,

Rich Van Dyke

Dumb question, but then why not just a really small TC slate.....  With a beep or tone... and a flash of an LED... 

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Great idea Ron. I used several variations of the bloop slate for many years. I agree with the keep it simple concept.

Time code would require that the numbers be large enough to read at distance and that the camera operator have critical focus to make it viable. A combination of 3 numbers and/or a bright light would work well for me. The bright light option if for those times the camera isn't close enough to read the numbers. Changeable colors on the light could help ID different cameras. This would be helpful in mulit-camera shoots.

I like the option of various outputs - XLR, TA3, and something for a wireless transmitter (this could be done with adaptor cables).  Although I'm not sure how critical it is that the cameras get the beep as long as they get the light flash/numbers. I guess this would help with automated synching.

Also, my bloop slates were always on coil cables and attached to my shoulder strap. I could fire it there or remove it and hold it where the camera could more easily get it (high, low, whatever). A mic would be helpful.

I do remember that all of the incarnations of my various bloop slates were powered by 9 volt batts and they seemed to last forever, so powering was really a non-issue.

Thanks for all your innovative work.

Bruce

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-The mix-in is important so we don't lose an input.

-3 digits for sure.

-batt operated for simplicity (9v or AA).

-I like the idea of a slate mic built in.

When I used a bloop slate years ago (with Nagra 4.2)

I had often wished it had a slate mic.

There are some interesting ideas floating around this.

TC implementation would add expense, but what if it's just a reader/display?

Flash a single TC address on the zero frame with a recall button?

Just make sure the 'umbilical' carrying bloop info, TC, etc, is very robust and not

multiple leads.

Glen Piegari

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" Changeable colors on the light could help ID different cameras. "

how??  the tone on the audio will not be in different colors...

" XLR, TA3, and something for a wireless transmitter (this could be done with adaptor cables). "

how about Tuchel??

this is supposed to be a little bloop box, use KISS;

one balanced line level out and the rest "could be done with adaptor cables " KISS use adapters!

" but what if it's just a reader/display? "

it would still add expense!

" Flash a single TC address on the zero frame with a recall button? "

Huh??  even if I understand that, it would be more costly!

" I think two versions would be great a basic = cheap and a loaded one. " makes both more expensive than one simple one that does the job...  If you don't want to pay for my Tuchel connector, I don't want to pay for your XLR + 1/4" + 1/8" + hirose + RCA + TA3 +TA5 + Lemo + Neutricon + ...

"how critical it is that the cameras get the beep as long as they get the light flash/numbers  "

a bloop slate would flash light for image (camera) and send tone (audio) for sound.  if camera-corder needs the tone, it comes with whatever 'sound' is being sent from the sound equipment which is recording this all double system.

some folks are really over complicating this;  and every complication increases the price!

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Timecode seems to be of little use in the 5D/7D workflow, at least according to my clients working that way. I've been pretty busy in June and July and all but one day save those four actually done on film have been on either the 5D or 7D or combinations of those Canon DSLR's.

Simple is best. Adding multicolor displays, multilevel outputs, slate mics and so on will only add to the cost to us, the end users and will be of little practical use even if those features will appeal to the magazine/website readers that fancy themselves producers. All of the files created by either the cameras or recorders generally used have the ability to stamp an origination date and time to files they make, so take the 30 seconds it takes to sync those clocks daily. The "3,2,1 push" clock syncing method works fine when files are brought into most editing software.

Something that could only be plugged into to the mix buss of a mixer leaves out 744T/788T, Cantar and Zaxcom users among others.

Also, the point of a bloop light is simplicity. My favorite from the 4.2 days lit a light very fast by presenting it with moderate over-voltage and triggered the tone generator in the 4.2 Since modern devices don't have that capability, a noiseless pass-thru that will carry the bloop tone and a slate mic might be helpful.

Best regards,

Jim

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what Jim said...

as for the numbers:  they are also an added complication, especially since having numbers pretty much means also having a slate mic, and its complications...

but this is probably the biggest "option" being discussed; and if we have a slate mic and numbers, then comes navigating (changing) the numbers, and if this is the plan, then again: KISS

three buttons: zero, inc, dec (hold for count up/count down) and two digits is plenty: 00-99  space them so a piece of tape (or velcro) can be used to apply any prefix, if really desired. (scene #, camera numbers, date, etc.)

possibly a small speaker (means an amp! means additional cost) w on/off switch for an audible option for camera mic pick-up

Oh, yeah, really want to sell a lot of them: put spaces for DP and Director !! --but that adds size, and is anti-KISS!!

KISS

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By modular I meant have the output/s not be just a cable coming out of the box but some kind of jack so that you can make whatever cable you want to output to whatever..  I like the idea of having two outputs despite the KISS mantra..  You never know how it might come in handy and I can't imagine 1 additional 1/8" jack complicates things too much.

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Thanks, Mike.

By the "3,2,1 push method" I meant to add to my post that you'll get to a place where PluralEyes or synching by looking at audio waveforms will be the fastest way. Early Avid, Media 100 and Final Cut users hated to enable waveforms for the audio tracks because it slowed those systems to a crawl. With modern computers and software, my clients often sync multi-camera shots solely via a little shot of tone sent to all of them and to the recorder as well. Line up those peaks from the shot of tone and all you have to deal with are offsets within the cameras.

Best regards,

Jim

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By modular I meant have the output/s not be just a cable coming out of the box but some kind of jack so that you can make whatever cable you want to output to whatever..  I like the idea of having two outputs despite the KISS mantra..  You never know how it might come in handy and I can't imagine 1 additional 1/8" jack complicates things too much.

All of that adapting should be at the end of the cable connected to whatever multipin that's on the device. Multiple plugs on a box you need to hold out where the camera can see it while you juggle a boom pole and deal with four other inputs means confusion at best. And from my experience, you will have to get the device out in front of the camera in spite of what you're doing or be wrong for having it on-set.

Best regards,

Jim

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