RadoStefanov Posted August 11, 2010 Report Posted August 11, 2010 I have an issue with my matched 8040s. They both work but one of them sounds different then the other. Frequency response is close to each other but sounds different even to my wife. White noise and pink noise samples are noticeably different between the 2 mics. Warranty expires in 1 month. I called them explaining the issue and they said they would only fix/exchange a mic that is not working properly. They would not replace both with a matched pair. I just feel hurt by a company that sold me MKH416, MKH60, MKH8040, The entire 900 evolution microphone series, pair of G3s, HD25 II, HD280. Not to mention the MANY MANY times I recommended them to other people Considering selling all my Sennheiser Gear!!!!!!!!!!!! The only product I can not find a good enough replacement for is the 900 Series.
RadoStefanov Posted August 11, 2010 Author Report Posted August 11, 2010 A few other mics are not in the picture. Loaned them to a friend. This is what I call a brand loyalty. Forgot to add my neumman TLM103 and kms 104
John Blankenship Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 What pro audio dealer did you buy these from? Contact them and ask for their assistance. The good folks at Trew, Coffey, LSC, Professional Sound, et al, would have no problem contacting a Sennheiser District Sales Rep. John B.
Izen Ears Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 This is a very delicate discussion to have publicly but I applaud your boldness! These companies should be held accountable and it should be public when they screw over a loyal customer. Way I see it you've tested the matched pair before the warranty expired and found a defective matched pair. Whoever sold them to you (hopefully a "usual suspect") should take them back as damaged and replace them with the same exact models. If this is impossible and you're forced to deal with the company directly, well you may be screwed. Keep asking to speak to a supervisor, then their supervisor, and explain your case. Include the same info you put in your first post, and you might also want to mention projects you're working on. People do listen - I recently had a triumph where the company went from 3 - 5 weeks and $460 charge, to a free loaner for 6 weeks and a $60 charge. He'd seen a commercial for the stupid show I was working on and got friendly after that; you know, maybe you're working with some actor that this supervisor loves or something. Squeaky wheel gets the grease! Dan Izen
Tom Visser Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 What pro audio dealer did you buy these from? Contact them and ask for their assistance. The good folks at Trew, Coffey, LSC, Professional Sound, et al, would have no problem contacting a Sennheiser District Sales Rep. John B. He actually bought them used from me, and I noted the discrepancy. It is not simply an issue of a matched pair "not being quite matched"... one of the microphones is grossly different than the other, enough so, that I would consider it broken, not simply a little off. Perhaps someone at Sennheiser is failing to understand this distinction.
RadoStefanov Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Posted August 12, 2010 It is not grossly different. Just a little. After I got them from you I tested them my self and they do not sound like the samples that you send me. I would not say that both of them sound bad. Just compered to each other they sound different. When I called Sennheiser I explained that if they repair or exchange one mic I will loose the consecutive serial number matched stereo. Then I asked if I can get another matched set. They said they would only replace a faulty mic. I got a matched pair of TLM103 and paid $400 extra for them. Individually they would have cost $400 less. BTW I tracked the original receipt and found that they were not registered with sennheiser. Do you think they warranty is not transferable? He actually bought them used from me, and I noted the discrepancy. It is not simply an issue of a matched pair "not being quite matched"... one of the microphones is grossly different than the other, enough so, that I would consider it broken, not simply a little off. Perhaps someone at Sennheiser is failing to understand this distinction.
RadoStefanov Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Posted August 12, 2010 That is way I started buying everything from Trew. What pro audio dealer did you buy these from? Contact them and ask for their assistance. The good folks at Trew, Coffey, LSC, Professional Sound, et al, would have no problem contacting a Sennheiser District Sales Rep. John B.
RadoStefanov Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Posted August 12, 2010 By the way the line from "THE NETWORK" in the topic title is a little overboard for which I apologies.
Tom Visser Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 It is not grossly different. Just a little. After I got them from you I tested them my self and they do not sound like the samples that you send me. I would not say that both of them sound bad. Just compered to each other they sound different. I can tell you that when I tested them, the one mic was drastically different - pretty much "broken", as you can hear from the sound file. Probably in shipping, whatever part of the element that is busted, may have moved / shifted and apparently is "better" now performance-wise, but I'm certain that the mic qualifies as broken.
RadoStefanov Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Posted August 12, 2010 It is funny when I tested them at the RAMPS party in my 744t the ***05 mic sounded like a high pass engaged at 250hz but when I went home and plugged it in to my Great River Preamp the low frequencies miraculously came back. After that it sounded ok in both my 744t and mixpre. I can tell you that when I tested them, the one mic was drastically different - pretty much "broken", as you can hear from the sound file. Probably in shipping, whatever part of the element that is busted, may have moved / shifted and apparently is "better" now performance-wise, but I'm certain that the mic qualifies as broken.
Angelo Waldron Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 Jesus. One month left on a warranty that you don't know if valid? Whose fault was it not registering the mics? Original purchaser probably. Even if not registered they will know how old they are from the serial numbers. Consecutive serial numbers are not necessary for matched pairs. Schoeps says their mics are already well matched. I believe Location Sound is a factory authorized Senn. service center and they have an anechoic chamber. They can test them and give you a print out of the frequency response.... and only then will you have an idea of what is wrong and can get fixed... most likely under warranty. And I agree, those Senn shotguns aren't very good.. I'll give you $100 each for them.
David Waelder Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 Rado, I see from your profile that you are in Las Vegas so a visit to Location Sound is not a casual thing. But I would encourage you to contact Mark Lesonsky at Location Sound to have the mikes evaluated. Location Sound - 818-980-9891, Mark's extension is: 332 He works the microphone bench in their service department. Among his evaluation tools is an anechoic chamber and an Audio Precision microphone test rig. It's a very small chamber, a cabinet really, but built for microphone testing.He can put each mike in the chamber and do a frequency response test. If you have matched microphones, the test graphs should be identical or very nearly so. If one microphone is defective and audibly different, the test should reveal that. I think if you were to approach Sennheiser with a print-out of a frequency sweep showing a flat response in one unit and something other than flat in the "matching" mike, they might be more cooperative. This evaluation also ought to help by identifying which of the two mikes is out of spec. Now that we have a fuller picture of the sequence of events, I would have to agree that the quote from Network is a little over the top. The request to replace two expensive microphones is coming from someone who purchased them used from the original owner. Still, if they are within warranty, they ought to both perform to spec. Your task is to supply evidence that at least one mike is not just slightly different than the other but actually out of spec. Mark might help with that. David Waelder
studiomprd Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 I know a number of them personally, and they are all great folks! I'm not certain that "consecutive serial numbers" indicate a matched pair; in my experience, matched pairs are determined by comparing a number of individual units and pairing up the best combination, regardless of S/N. most of today's modern manufacturing produces pretty close tolerances among entire production runs, and beyond. When hand (and ear) matched pairs are called for, there is usually an extra charge for the extra efforts required, and s/n's are not sequential. I'm sure that if these were actually sold as a matched pair, that in repairing or replacing a faulty unit, the factory would apply their pair-matching criteria to the actual selection of any replacement unit. As one of the mic's is known to be significantly off from the other, (both the original owner and the subsequent owner agree on this!) then at least one of them needs to be serviced, and if still under warranty, I'm sure that Sennheiser will promptly, happily, and fully meet their obligations. The dealer that sold these units would be the logical place to start, although I'm sure any Sennheiser authorized service facility would work with you directly... At this point, hindsight might suggest that the original owner ought to have taken care of this earlier, but probably did not want to deal with it, and instead sold them at a discount. Caveat Emptor! BTW, I'll take that POS 985 off your hands for $50.
RadoStefanov Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Posted August 12, 2010 What is a POS 985? Well I do not think I need them to be tested. EDIT: How much will LSC charge for testing the mics? I played back white and pink noise trough my ADAMS, put both mics next to each other with the same gain and used my RME DICICHECK totalizer "which BTW is a great program" I can see the different frequency response. Also I can hear it. Tom the strange thing is that the ***05 mic has a little LF loss and a little HF boost compared to the other one. I just think I will sell them and buy brand new schoeps 641 from a dealer. I never should have sold my 641!!!!! I know a number of them personally, and they are all great folks! I'm not certain that "consecutive serial numbers" indicate a matched pair; in my experience, matched pairs are determined by comparing a number of individual units and pairing up the best combination, regardless of S/N. most of today's modern manufacturing produces pretty close tolerances among entire production runs, and beyond. When hand (and ear) matched pairs are called for, there is usually an extra charge for the extra efforts required, and s/n's are not sequential. I'm sure that if these were actually sold as a matched pair, that in repairing or replacing a faulty unit, the factory would apply their pair-matching criteria to the actual selection of any replacement unit. As one of the mic's is known to be significantly off from the other, (both the original owner and the subsequent owner agree on this!) then at least one of them needs to be serviced, and if still under warranty, I'm sure that Sennheiser will promptly, happily, and fully meet their obligations. The dealer that sold these units would be the logical place to start, although I'm sure any Sennheiser authorized service facility would work with you directly... At this point, hindsight might suggest that the original owner ought to have taken care of this earlier, but probably did not want to deal with it, and instead sold them at a discount. Caveat Emptor! BTW, I'll take that POS 985 off your hands for $50.
RadoStefanov Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Posted August 12, 2010 I'm not certain that "consecutive serial numbers" indicate a matched pair; in my experience, matched pairs are determined by comparing a number of individual units and pairing up the best combination, regardless of S/ Back in 2002 I spoke to Neumann "do not remember if sennheiser owned them at the time" and they told me that in the manufacturing process consecative serial numbers are as close as possible. I asked them if the match them sonically and they said NO.
studiomprd Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 " What is a POS 985? " sorry, e965: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/professional_wired-microphones_vocal-microphones_evolution-900-e-965?Open&path=professional_wired-microphones_vocal-microphones_evolution-900 " Well I do not think I need them to be tested. " maybe not... " How much will LSC charge for testing the mics? " I'm sorry, but don't you think you need to ask.... 818-980-9891, or 800- 228-4429!! (I know, Eric!) then again if you arrange to send them for warranty service, the necessary testing is probably included (no cost to you!)... " I can see the different frequency response. Also I can hear it. " we all get that, but this needs to be verified for warranty service, as noted above... " I just think I will sell them " as is??, warranty almost over... " I spoke to Neumann "do not remember if Sennheiser owned them at the time" They did, but they were run as separate companies at that time, so what Neumann said about Neumann did not necessarily apply to Sennheiser. " consecutive serial numbers are as close as possible. I asked them if the match them sonically and they (Neumann) said NO. " but you paid a $400 premium on a 'matched pair' of Neumann's, after they told you that?? so maybe you should have them serviced, as needed, and see what the results are?? you know if silver tongue honey is applied in these discussions, you might even get before and after freq plots from Senn, and then decide if they meet your matching requirements, or you may decide sell them, and get top $$...
soundtrane Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 rado, you buy and sell too much and too often! heh...
RadoStefanov Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Posted August 12, 2010 I did not pay a premium for the sennheisers. I paid premium for the TLM103. Thanks Senator as always very helpful. " What is a POS 985? " sorry, e965: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/professional_wired-microphones_vocal-microphones_evolution-900-e-965?Open&path=professional_wired-microphones_vocal-microphones_evolution-900 " Well I do not think I need them to be tested. " maybe not... " How much will LSC charge for testing the mics? " I'm sorry, but don't you think you need to ask.... then again if you arrange to send them for warranty service, the necessary testing may be included (and covered!)... " I can see the different frequency response. Also I can hear it. " we all get that, but this needs to be verified for warranty service, as noted above... " I just think I will sell them " as is??, warranty almost over... " I spoke to Neumann "do not remember if sennheiser owned them at the time" They did, but they were run as separate companies at that time, so what Neumann said about Neumann did not necessarily apply to Sennheiser. " consecutive serial numbers are as close as possible. I asked them if the match them sonically and they said NO. " but you paid a $400 premium?? so maybe you should have them serviced, as needed, and see what the results are?? you know if silver tongue honey is applied in these discussions, you might even get before and after freq plots from Senn, and then decide if they meet your matching requirements, or you may decide sell them, and get top $$...
David Waelder Posted August 12, 2010 Report Posted August 12, 2010 Well I do not think I need them to be tested. EDIT: How much will LSC charge for testing the mics? For a definitive answer you would obviously need to talk with LSC. I think their shop rate for repair work is about $95/hour. Doing a simple frequency test of two mikes would probably not require more than half an hour so the work could probably be accomplished for about $50. On occasion, they have done this sort of thing at no charge. But, since you didn't purchase the mikes from them, that might be too much to expect. For your $50 (or so) you get a print out of results from an independent testing facility that may be more persuasive with Sennheiser than complaints that one mike sounds different than the other. David
RadoStefanov Posted August 13, 2010 Author Report Posted August 13, 2010 I do not have the vocal 900 series mics. I use a kms104 and an 2 Rode S1s. MY FAVORITE VOCAL LIVE MIC EVER. SOUNDS GREAT ON VARIETY OF VOICES. " What is a POS 985? " sorry, e965: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/professional_wired-microphones_vocal-microphones_evolution-900-e-965?Open&path=professional_wired-microphones_vocal-microphones_evolution-900
Angelo Waldron Posted August 13, 2010 Report Posted August 13, 2010 Just pick up the phone and call LSC.. they are waiting for you! How much does a phone call cost?
Steve Joachim Posted August 13, 2010 Report Posted August 13, 2010 LSC will test them in our chamber for you at no charge (just maybe think of us next time you consider purchasing something!). Send the mics attention to: Steve Joachim Sales Manager Location Sound Corp. 10639 Riverside Drive N. Hollywood Ca 91602 Remember to include your contact info and, a Fed Ex # or credit card# for return shipping.
Izen Ears Posted August 13, 2010 Report Posted August 13, 2010 At the risk of being inflammatory - where the fuck is a Sennheiser rep on this group?!! Dan Izen
RadoStefanov Posted August 13, 2010 Author Report Posted August 13, 2010 I would imagine their sound for film profits are maybe 1% of their total profit. Maybe not a priority. Imagine all the gamers that are calling for their headsets.... At the risk of being inflammatory - where the fuck is a Sennheiser rep on this group?!! Dan Izen
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