DjGo Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Hello group, I was thinking of trying out two shure MX202 goosnecked-mics for car-dialog.. To me this mic seems easy enough to mount/hide it under/over the visors and the flexible gooseneck makes it very easy to actually point the mic at the one who is speaking. I used to do the same with COS11's but have mixed results, I would like a tighter pickup-pattern so the Shure mics with a hyper-cardioid look like a good bet to me.. Anyone ever heard of this mics or used them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 they are very well regarded in other applications, the ones they were specifically designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 they are very well regarded in other applications, the ones they were specifically designed for. Have you used these mics? I thought they were designed for different applications as diverse as recording choirs and close speech (conferences).. What are your findings for close miced speech (dialog)? Anyhoo, I suppose it's up to me to check how these mics hold up in an application they were presumably not designed for ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 yes, yes, OK (podium) and YES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 yes, yes, OK (podium) and YES! Thanks (x 4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bperlman Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 You might also consider looking into the DPA 4080 cardiod lav or the DPA 4098H supercardioid. I haven't tried them but am familiar with other DPA mics and have been impressed by them. It would definitely help to have a minature cardioid rather than an omni lav for car plants. I often use my Schoeps colettes capsules in cars, but even they can be too big to hide easily. I know this group has addressed car plants before and the discussions were pretty open ended. Always glad to consider new ideas for old challenges. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted September 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 You might also consider looking into the DPA 4080 cardiod lav or the DPA 4098H supercardioid. I haven't tried them but am familiar with other DPA mics and have been impressed by them. It would definitely help to have a minature cardioid rather than an omni lav for car plants. I often use my Schoeps colettes capsules in cars, but even they can be too big to hide easily. I know this group has addressed car plants before and the discussions were pretty open ended. Always glad to consider new ideas for old challenges. Bruce Thank you Bruce, I will look into the DPA options. Do you know (couldn't really find it on the DPA site) if the mic-clip of the DPA4080 can come off? The 4098H is not available yet here in the Netherlands.. This subject has been covered I know.. I never really had satisfactory results using Omni lavs, and I tried hiding Schoeps mics, but that's a real challenge. I also own one CUB01, but it's not always easy to fix this mic to a visor and most of the times it's too far away from the actors giving me too much car-noise and too little usable speech-level IMO so I'm indeed considering some other options. When I come to think of it, perhaps a gooseneck is not the ideal car-plant: taping it directly to a visor without proper shock-suspension may pose another problem, perhaps senator Michaels could chime in once again? how sensitive is the gooseneck of the shure mx202 to shock/handling noise? Also a serious consideration is budget: I like to, as probably most of us do (?) , get the best bang for the buck: I came across another mic which might apply, the Audix ADX-40. Anyone have experience with this brand/type of mic? Thanks again, Diego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 As every car sounds different and is configured differently regarding its interior, there is no right or wrong way to mic a car. My recent experience is on shows with multiple cameras with zoom lenses, so hiding the mic is very important. I have had great success with COS-11 or MKE2 lavs in the visors with SM transmitters underneath. I do whatever I can to get the mics close to the actors, or the actors closer to the mics. It isn't always the "best" sound, but cars usually sound weird and/or noisy anyway, so convenience and disguise rule here. Sometimes it's best to just wire the actors. Larger mics overhead (Schoepps/GVC) are hard to hide, both with the mic and the rigging. Micing from below (which I like to do whenever possible, with an MHK50) causes problems when actors are constantly bumping the mic. But if you can do it, it can sound great. What I don't like about this approach, however, is half way through the scene the DP or director can change things up, and suddenly the mic is seen. Now you have half your coverage on one kind of mic, and half on another. Regarding the CUB01. I have various small pieces of plexiglass onto which I mount the CUB01. The plexi can tuck under the visor, or between the two visors, or can be taped to the ceiling a little easier than the CUB01 directly. The plex also offers a reflective surface for the CUB01, which in some cases can improve the sound quality of the mic. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted September 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 thanks Robert, very helpful. The plexiglass is useful stuff isn't it.. I once pinned a little hole in a cd-jewelcase big enough to let a cos11 poke through.. hung above a table an inch or 5 below the ceiling.. worked great on a big group of people.. couldn't boom, so I had the main characters wired and the 'jewelcase-mic' made the conversation a litlle more spacious.. Never thought of using this trick on car interiors, that's odd.. mmm.. You're right, there's no right or wrong way to mic in cars, I'm just investigating some more options. When I say that I was not satisfied with results, it has probably a lot more to do with me, and my perception of how I want to hear things.. I never got any complaints from post in the past for car-scenes.. and true, the sound of a car-interior is always never ideal, and strange.. I'll probably invest in another CUB01, and some of the 'lower-end' Audixes.. use them side by side if possible... Diego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted September 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 well, plans change, it's their nature, after seeing the dpa 4098 at the IBC in Amsterdam, i decided to order two of them for a demo. I'll report back after a testdrive. the mics will be here next week i hope. Diego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 Peter Engh used to make something like this--a gooseneck mic with a mounting box w/ xlr... One advantage to the CUB1 or other boundary type mics is they are FAST to deploy and remove, and relatively forgiving of performance changes by the actors. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 Just finished a job in a convertable with the top down, lavs on the visors were buffeted by wind, lavs on talent suffered the same fate. The quick fix that worked was a Senn MKH 50 stuck in the open shifter housing slot facing up. Tracks sounded great. Director was impressed and happy. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted September 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Just finished a job in a convertable with the top down, lavs on the visors were buffeted by wind, lavs on talent suffered the same fate. The quick fix that worked was a Senn MKH 50 stuck in the open shifter housing slot facing up. Tracks sounded great. Director was impressed and happy. Eric that's great! If the camera-angles give me the option of using a good condenser-mic, I will always first choose that solution.. I'm somewhat excited for next week!! Really, really want to test those DPAs.. Upcoming film I'm doing production sound on will have about 40% 'in the car-dialog', no budget for hefty ADR-sessions.. so my recordings have to be 100% usable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniebeaudry Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Peter Engh used to make something like this--a gooseneck mic with a mounting box w/ xlr... One advantage to the CUB1 or other boundary type mics is they are FAST to deploy and remove, and relatively forgiving of performance changes by the actors. phil p Peter also made one that plugged directly into a Lectro tx. Worked really well for man on the street interviews and plant mics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted October 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Well, a little later than expected, today I picked up 2 DPA 4098 gooseneck mics.. while driving home in my Peugeot Expert 1.9 Diesel, I tried one of them and recorded myself babbling away.. I am quite impressed by these little mics, clear, rich sounding and very directional. To my ears the sound off axis is not half bad (not a very scientific description I know) but It's clear, that mic placement is a critical factor (which is the case with all hypercardioids off course).. a head turn is a killer, that's obvious. The little gooseneck (as used on other DPA-models) makes it a piece of cake to point the mic, and sticking the mic to a visor using some Bostik is easypeazy.. I was worried if contact-noises were going to give me problems but the recordings showed no evidence of 'handling noise'.. The build quality is something that will show in time.. the diaphragm sits deep into a 1,3 inch mesh tube.. the tube itself seems a little sensitive, one of the mics showed a little dent in the mesh. Also the microdot connectors should be handled with care. I'm glad the production I'm on right now is going to use a low-loader for most of the car-interior dialogs so I'm sure I'm going to have lots of fun and good recordings using these mics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted October 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 a little update on de DPA 4098 mics. Used them a week ago on some car-interior scenes (for which I specifically bought these little mics). Hidden under the visors with the use of Bostik Bluetak. To my ears, the recordings were fine, full, rich and clear. The directional characteristics were very favourable in terms of surpressing other noises coming from the rear and sides of the mic. The only thing I'm not really impressed with is the susceptibility to Neon-light (the lighting department placed a neon-tube next to the mic-cables) which gave me a clear buzz (not acoustically).. also there seemed to be intermittent interference from another source which I at first could not discover.. The next day I checked the visors again if there was anything I overlooked, and what struck me was that the mirrors in the visors have lighting that go on as soon as you slide the mirror-covers open.. so, perhaps placing the mics with the red-dot phantom-xlr adapters under the visor was not a smart move..? Luckily al recorded dialog was free of these interfering noises.. I had a hard time explaining to the youthfull (playfull) actors that between takes, they should mind the microphones above their heads.. At one time, one of the windfoamies was gone together with the mesh-tube that protects the diaphragm leaving it totally exposed.. After that I made sure that between takes the mics were hidden totally out of harms way.. Well, again no scientific review (not something one should expect of me..) but I think I've made a good decision to buy these DPA's and I would seriously advice anyone interested in investing in new microphones for this specific task to take a listen to these (no I am not affiliated in any way to DPA ;-) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Richard Lightstone was able to do a very hasty test of the new DPA 4098 ultra-mini directional microphone. Richard told me that he did the test in between takes while shooting on a TV show he's doing (very fast paced, what a surprise). I have posted both these tests on one of my websites. One test is a Schoeps on the LEFT side and the DPA on the RIGHT. The other is just the DPA plugged into a Lectrosonics transmitter directly. I will try and post some images of this unbelievably tiny microphone. We hope to do more test in the future. Listen to the tests on the Media page on JWSOUNDSPACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Thanks, Richard, for taking the time. Thanks, Jeff, for posting the test. Sounds like something that is worth having. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Richard Lightstone was able to do a very hasty test of the new DPA 4098 ultra-mini directional microphone. Evidently we have the model number wrong with this mic --- it is something like 4083 or 4081. I was not able to find it on the DPA site. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Richard Lightstone did a real world test Friday night with the new DPA ultra-mini directional microphones. Visor mounted in a Corvette, top down, stationary but simulated to be stuck in traffic with all engines on. I have put the file up on one of my websites (since this forum doesn't really support this sort of thing). Clicking on the icon will play the file in your browser or you can download the .wav file and play it with anything you choose on your computer. DPA in Corvette interior, visor mount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Well, from the photo they certainly are small. Obviously small enough that they don't protrude significantly below the visor and sufficiently inconspicuous that, if a camera were to pick one up in a passing glance, it probably wouldn't read as a microphone or piece of film gear. I'm curious about how they are deployed. From the picture, they appear to be aimed off to the side rather than down and pointed at people in the seats. Is this how they were actually used for the recording? Or are we seeing a roughed in mount that was optimized before actual recording? (The top appears to still by up so things may have changed considerably before actual filming.) Or is Richard working with the fine edge of a directional pattern - still within the sweet spot of a polar pattern but at its very edge? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Nice. That is what I was hoping for but was afraid to ask for, a real test from a take on your show. Thanks. Sounds good. I listened to the clip LnR split and also I panned them to mono in my home studio. All signal, very little noise. The voices sounded good and natural to me. Any downside to the 4098's? CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter775 Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Nice. That is what I was hoping for but was afraid to ask for, a real test from a take on your show. Thanks. Sounds good. I listened to the clip LnR split and also I panned them to mono in my home studio. All signal, very little noise. The voices sounded good and natural to me. Any downside to the 4098's? CrewC Just to clarify some confusing info about the mic. There is no mic called 4098. It´s called 4081 or 4080. There is a 4098H but it´s a miniture gooseneck style mic for hanging purposes (choir recordings etc.) and a much higher sensitivity (20mV/Pa) than the mic this thread is about (6mV/Pa). The other specialized instrument mics are called 4099 and offer special mounting clips for different instruments. The mic in the test is most likely this one http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&category=129&item=24376#specifications or this one http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=129&item=24061 One is a cardioid the other a super-cardioid. .What confuses me the most is the specs posted. They mention a supercardioid with 20mV/Pa. But the clip mic with 20mV/Pa is actually a cardioid. The supercardioid is only 6mV/Pa. The 4098H however is indeed a supercardioid with 20mV/Pa but looks completely different than the pictures posted. Can the OP please clarify wich one of the mics he actually used in the test so it becomes more usefull? Would be great for the others looking for a new mic Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 " they appear to be aimed off to the side " looks perfect to me... when the two actors talk to each other, especially as they are stopped in traffic, they will be facing just about perfectly toward them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunosound Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Sounded great to me, and I felt exactly the same as described in the Schoeps v. DPA file, that the Schoeps had more warmth but the DPA sounded like a very good match otherwise. My 2¢ and looking forward to trying them myself Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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