PTA Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Im entertaining the idea of getting a Schoeps CMIT. I already have an MKH50 that I love for indoor use, and wanted to ask if the CMIT would be a good compliment. They probably don't mix as well as two Schoeps mics, and they will probably mix fine if I ever have to use them on the same shoot, but I just wanted to check and see if anyone has had any experience or thoughts on the two mics together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I use this combination all the time and find it great . Your other choice would be an MKH60 , which I also have but I find the Cmit5u to be far superior to the 60 . I have never been one for having matching mics although in a perfect sound stage with the mics close together you may hear a different bg noise as you mix from one to the other . But in saying that you can get that with matching mics too depending on what they are pointing at . Tony Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVS Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I love the CMIT...the MKH 60 doesn't compare....period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I love the CMIT...the MKH 60 doesn't compare....period I use the mkh 60 quite often and like it alot. I never used the CMIT, what would you say are the advantages? A side note: On the show I'm working on right now I'm using the schoeps CCM 41 lg for indoors stuff, instead of the mkh 50 I usually use, and damn is it good. So small and light yet such a full sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSound Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I never used the CMIT, what would you say are the advantages? The reach of the CMIT is excellent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 One thing I find and hope someone can chime in here is that i struggle to get enough gain when using my cmit into my fusion . The trim is flat out and so is the fader on some scenes . The sensitivity of the cmit is a lot less than the 50 or 60 . Has anyone else found this? The reach of the cmit is better and when I ABd them years ago I liked the way the cmit articulated the dialogue . I found it easier to understand . I think that maybe to do with the off axis rejection of sound . Tony Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 One thing I find and hope someone can chime in here is that i struggle to get enough gain when using my cmit into my fusion . The trim is flat out and so is the fader on some scenes . Tony Johnson This should not be the case. I have never had any gain issues with the blue Schoeps but it is always connected to my Cooper 208 board. The gain may not be set properly in the Fusion. Every time I have plugged a mic directly into my Deva I have had to trim the gain way up (+ something above 0). If you look at the output sensitivity of the CMIT vs. other microphones, it is not far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I concur with Jeff on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 DPA 4017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EARS Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 You will love the CMIT. I have two! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 DPA 4017 Don and I spent a day with the DPA 4017 and it is a really fine microphone. Our conclusion was that we still prefer the Schoeps. I would like to have both as there are some instances where the DPA might be a better choice, but I can't afford to buy any more gear at this time. The other factor for us is that when we have to use 2 long mics, the 2nd mic is usually the Sanken CS-3e which is not such a great match to the Schoeps. The DPA is a closer match, though I would say that in the situations where we do use two booms, this sort of careful matching is not a huge issue. Ideally, two of the SAME microphone is the best but we are not able to do that. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 The DPA 4017 certainly has more reach than the Schoeps CMIT 5U. But I've done a side by side comparison and the Schoeps beats the DPA and the Sanken hands down sonically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Don and I spent a day with the DPA 4017 and it is a really fine microphone. Our conclusion was that we still prefer the Schoeps. I would like to have both as there are some instances where the DPA might be a better choice, but I can't afford to buy any more gear at this time. The other factor for us is that when we have to use 2 long mics, the 2nd mic is usually the Sanken CS-3e which is not such a great match to the Schoeps. The DPA is a closer match, though I would say that in the situations where we do use two booms, this sort of careful matching is not a huge issue. Ideally, two of the SAME microphone is the best but we are not able to do that. Regards, Jeff Wexler Also, (my opinion) the CS3e, while less beautiful sounding than the Schoeps, has a more feeling of "reach" in unfavorable conditions.... phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Thanks for all the opinions, they help. Now I'm stuck with a new dilemma, that I thought would spring up in my head, and that is wanting the CCM 41 just to have all Schoeps for indoor and outdoor... damn. But maybe down the road, it might be nice to have the MKH-50 for indoor stuff where the talent's voice it a bit higher and more tinny, maybe adding something to the bottom end. Just thinking out loud now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 This should not be the case. I have never had any gain issues with the blue Schoeps but it is always connected to my Cooper 208 board. The gain may not be set properly in the Fusion. Every time I have plugged a mic directly into my Deva I have had to trim the gain way up I too have no problems when the cmit is plugged into my sonosax mixer , its just the fusion . I have the trim all the way up on the mic input and the fader often all the way up . Is there any extra trim i don't know about . Is the available mic gain the same for fusion as the deva . Its just on some low level dial I wish I had another 5 - 10db . I am using the blue cmit . tony johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Henke Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Years ago I tested my Deva with dynamic mics on a radio recording. The input gain was also too l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Henke Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 ..sorry my finger slipped, but the Deva was low compared to my Cooper. I think I would miss the gain sometimes, but I use rf most of the time. DH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 One thing I find and hope someone can chime in here is that i struggle to get enough gain when using my cmit into my fusion . The trim is flat out and so is the fader on some scenes . The sensitivity of the cmit is a lot less than the 50 or 60 . Has anyone else found this? ... Tony Johnson The output level of the Schoeps CMIT should be pretty close to the Sennheiser MKH50. It is normal to turn up the input trim of the Deva preamps when using distant micing such as with overhead booms. And, as with the inputs of all mixers, the rotary faders will frequently go past the "0" (unity), just like with normal vertical faders, for an additional 12dB of gain. Unlike some other mixers with rotary faders that have unity gain at the 12 o'clock position, the Deva's rotary faders are arranged more like vertical faders, with unity gain at about 2/3 full up (at about 2:30 o'clock). At risk of seeming too basic, I'll remind everyone that the input trim should be high enough to keep the prefader level just below full-scale at the loudest point, allowing a reasonable amount of headroom for surprise peaks. Because headroom is allowed for the peaks, it requires running the fader higher than unity (past the 0 on the fader scale) much of the time to record lower signals at full scale. All this means that you should not be at all shy about operating the Deva rotary faders between 2 o'clock and full up, with the trim properly set. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Thoughts on including the KMR81i into this discussion? I've been back and forth with the CMIT vs. KMR81i. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmaho Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 This should not be the case. I have never had any gain issues with the blue Schoeps but it is always connected to my Cooper 208 board. The gain may not be set properly in the Fusion. Every time I have plugged a mic directly into my Deva I have had to trim the gain way up (+ something above 0). If you look at the output sensitivity of the CMIT vs. other microphones, it is not far off. Hi Guys, The Sennheisers do have a hotter output than the Schoeps (I think it's a 6db difference), but the Schoeps have plenty of gain. I'm very happy with my CMIT and haven't taken the Sennheiser 60 out of it's case since I bought the CMIT. It doesn't have the reach of a long shotgun like the 816, but it really pulls out the voice when you are dealing with 2 cameras shooting a wider and tighter shot simultaneously. I usually name the Blue after the B camera operator on whatever shoot I'm on because whenever the B camera comes out so does the blue ;-) Best, Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Graff Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 I too have no problems when the cmit is plugged into my sonosax mixer , its just the fusion . I have the trim all the way up on the mic input and the fader often all the way up . Is there any extra trim i don't know about . Is the available mic gain the same for fusion as the deva . Its just on some low level dial I wish I had another 5 - 10db . I am using the blue cmit . tony johnson Hi Tony, Just a thought, but have you tried the microphone in every input of the Fusion to see if perhaps the input you are using is lower than the others? I found I had a couple of inputs that required more gain than the others with equivalent input sources. Zaxcom fixed this for me so that all the inputs are within a couple of dB's of each other. (This is true for inputs 1-8 at mic or line. Inputs 9-12 are line level only, but require more gain trim than 1-8 at line level and this is inherent in the design and normal.) I concur with Glen Trew's comments about the rotary faders. On another note, I generally find that the Fusion has much more gain available than my Sound Devices mixers (I have 442, 302, and Mixpre) at both line and mic level. I run my 411a receivers at +5 (wide open) with the Fusion at line level (of course) and have plenty of gain to spare. 411a into SD mixers at line level requires trim pots to be pretty much wide open. Anyway, I am also in the market for another mic and have enjoyed this thread. Selling a CS-3e (keeping two) and also want to sell a MKH60 I never use. (never use my 416 either, but I just gotta keep it!) Planning to buy a MKH50 to complement the 8050 I already have, but a bit more practical. Now thinking I might use CMIT5U more... Hmmm...maybe both :-) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 At risk of seeming too basic, I'll remind everyone that the input trim should be high enough to keep the prefader level just below full-scale at the loudest point, allowing a reasonable amount of headroom for surprise peaks. Because headroom is allowed for the peaks, it requires running the fader higher than unity (past the 0 on the fader scale) much of the time to record lower signals at full scale. All this means that you should not be at all shy about operating the Deva rotary faders between 2 o'clock and full up, with the trim properly set. Glen Trew I totally get this but the what i am finding is that with my cmit the trim is at full and on much of the dialogue the fader is full too all the way past unity with nothing left if an actor drops their level . The other thing too is that if i am constantly having the fader past unity then the predader of the mike on another channnel will be down in gain compared to the mix track . I like to , if I can , operate around unity so the isos have a similar gain to the mix track . I agree with Billy of about a 6db gain for the 50 over the cmit . In saying that i love the cmit and my fusion I just wish it had a little more mic gain . I accept it has as much or more than other recorders . I did not have my cmit with my pd6 so I cannot compare . tony johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 ooopps sorry I got the quote versus reply all arse about face . tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 That's okay, Tony, but thank you for pointing out that you swapped the Reply and the Quote. I am still perplexed by your account of the gain problems. I am going to have to play around with my Schoeps CMIT connected directly to my Deva to try and determine for myself what is going on with your setup. Glen Trew, I believe, uses his Deva with the MIX-12 so he would be connecting the mic directly to the Deva also. Glen does not seem to be having this problem. Also, I don't think there is any difference on this account between the Deva and a Deva Fusion. Paul Graff uses the Fusion and he has weighed in here stating that he has not had gain issues. I really cannot figure this one out. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Thanks Jeff , I will too have a play this week and look at it again . I don't think there is anything wrong as such maybe just my perception of it . It all came about when I recorded a whispered dial scene , the mike was very close to the actors and I had everything up on the fusion and felt i needed more and knew from being in this situation many times that if I was going through my sonosax i would have around 20db more gain to play with , not that you would use all of it as it would bring up excessive noise but I could use some of it . Actually after re reading Paul Graffs post maybe there is something wrong as I used my lectro 411a set to +5db , line level into my fusion , the smd xmitter set to 32 with a dpa 4061 attached and could not get enough level too . Back to the drawing board or I could read the instruction manual , such an un male thing to do . Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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