old school Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hey all, I just reviewed the streaming video classes that local 695 has posted on it's web site and there is a wealth of info there. Thanks to Sally, Jeff, Wolf, and Laurence for all their effort in making this happen. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I'm assuming you have to be 695 to watch these videos ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hey Rob, I'm not sure about that, I'll find out. I hope it is open to all interested folks. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffrey Colon Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Hi Y'all Although the Streaming media is listed on the public access side of the 695 page it asks for a password... Looks like it's a members only feature at this point. Jeff C. http://www.695.com/mbr/edu-vid.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for looking into that. I'm really interested in seeing Don Coufal's boom seminar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 That password could be the biggest disappointment of my adult life. I know that people put work into those, so I accept that not everyone can watch for free - but if anyone knows if there is a way to watch these (Im in South Africa, by the way, and wouldnt mind paying), I would be really grateful - I've been wanting to see Don's seminar for a long time now... Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 i'll second that. -greg- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Hey all. It is true that the 695 web site is for members only which is newz to me, but it makes sense I guess. They/we members are paying the cost to stream the clips, but from my POV it would be great if all our future members could learn from them as well. Old School/NewSchool CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Hey all. It is true that the 695 web site is for members only which is newz to me, but it makes sense I guess. They/we members are paying the cost to stream the clips, but from my POV it would be great if all our future members could learn from them as well. Old School/NewSchool CrewC i'd pay for a dvd of don's seminar! -greg- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 I am personally going to lobby for the educational materials (at this point it is only the streaming video of a couple of the events we've done) to be available in some form to ALL those interested. I understand completely why it is for members only now --- the membership has paid for these things to be put on and then also for the preparation of the videos and the maintaining of our Local 695 website. I think a good case could be made for DVD's to be available for sale or rental. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim apter Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 thanks jeff... im sure not complaining because I know that getting that stuff recorded/edited/posted/streamed is by no means free. again, if any method turns up where I could pay to see these videos, and in turn help with the upkeep of the site, and get new videos made, please let me know - i wouldnt think twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Well Jeff could post his password and the problem would be solved. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Well Jeff could post his password and the problem would be solved. Eric THAT problem would be solved... but of course I would also probably be removed from the Board. - JW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Then email the secret word to me and I'll post it. I won't tell, I promise;-) Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redge Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 The norm for unions is to make their educational programmes as widely available as possible. I can't think of a single rational reason why a union would restrict access to this unless it incurred costs and announced, at the same time, that it wanted to recoup costs through sale of a DVD. As far as I can tell, nobody made a nickle out of the Gotham seminar. It must have involved a lot of donated time and resources. The result was an international broadcast that covered a lot of important issues. Why on earth can't a union do the same? Or at least have the common sense, if only in its own interest, to either make the material available to anyone who wants to see it, or to say that it is available if one shells out $X for a DVD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 "Nobody made a nickle" from the Gotham seminar, the Sound Devices or Location Sound seminars, or the many seminars that have been posted by C.A.S.. It should come as no surprise that Labor Unions are a completely different deal. As a Union, we come under scrutiny from all sorts of places, from the Federal government, National Labor Relations Board etc., that none of the above named organizations and businesses come under. As an example, if we spend union funds, which we have done for the events that are up on the website, and the videos were only available on the web (via the Internet), this is a Federal violation of labor laws governing the union. It only takes ONE dues paying member to file a discrimination grievance with the NLRB stating that they do NOT have an Internet connection and we would all be in big trouble. Now, I say big trouble specifically because we do have a few members in our Local who have already pulled these sorts of nonsense grievances and lawsuits and it has in the past cost us all quite a lot of time and money. Stupid, yes, but that is the reality. This is specifically why we have to have at least one hard copy DVD disk at the Local for viewing by members who do not have Internet connections. This is not to say that I will personally push for the sort of reasonable while still prudent approach to these things, the same as I have on all sorts of issues with our Local. As a side note, there is a plan in its infancy at this point, to form a company that is in the business of doing educational materials specifically for the crafts in the motion picture and television industry we are all in. By forming a company, we could do these things and SELL to whomever needs it, events, classes, seminars, videos, workshops and so forth... the Unions would then just be one of our "clients" and we would be free to distribute this stuff to everyone even internationally. It is a lofty plan but we are working on it. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted November 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Wow. It's enough to make one's head spin. I should call you or Sally and send over some DVD's so the local is covered from some B.S. lawsuit. Hard to believe someone would do that, but then maybe not. Have a good day off, I'm working on a Weight Watchers commercial that the great still photog Albert Watson is directing, talk about a weird juxtaposition of talent and commerce, we are downtown next to the RH3 basecamp, so I know where you and Don are spending your days, and I hope not your nights. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redge Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Jeff, I can understand what you are saying if a lawyer for the union actually told the organizers that they could get sued if they showed the programme over the internet. As people love to blame lawyers, I am skeptical that that is what happend. When a lawyer tells a union something like that in this kind of situation (assuming that it even happened), the lawyer normally explains how to do it in a way that doesn't result in a lawsuit. It seems fairly obvious to me that it is possible for a union to disseminate educational material, over the internet and to a wider public, without being sued. I think that the real question is, does the union want to make its educational materials widely available or not and, if the latter, does it want to do as good a job as Gotham did? If it doesn't do as good a job, is it a matter of legal impediments or a matter of simply not having the vision that the Gotham seminar demonstrated? If the explanation is legal impediments, then as someone who has spent time representing some of North America's larger labour unions, I don't get it. If it is a lack of vision, then maybe the union should talk to the people who did the Gotham seminar with a view to learning a few things. I'm not saying that the Gotham seminar was perfect (far from it, the gentleman who was handling the international participants said himself that they were learning as they went along), but I think that they did a pretty good job. If the union doesn't get on the phone to the people in New York who put that seminar on, its representatives are daft. I have worked with unions for which this would be seen as a major opportunity, not as a reason to run scared from their own membership. Myself, I just want the DVD. Where do I send my cheque? Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 You have really missed the point here, maybe I have not been as clear as I should be. So, here goes a reply to each of the points you make: "I can understand what you are saying if a lawyer for the union actually told the organizers that they could get sued if they showed the programme over the internet." I never said that any lawyer has told us anything. My comments about legal issues and the union come from personal experience in the past with certain union activities and certain legal hassles/lawsuits we have been involved in. "When a lawyer tells a union something like that in this kind of situation (assuming that it even happened), the lawyer normally explains how to do it in a way that doesn't result in a lawsuit. It seems fairly obvious to me that it is possible for a union to disseminate educational material, over the internet and to a wider public, without being sued." Even when we have done things "by the book" or with advice from our lawyers, this has not stopped a few really bad people from suing us in the past. The union has always prevailed but the court battles were lengthy and expensive. You are not right in your assumption that a union can disseminate educational material to a wider public and this should not be a problem. As I said before, labor unions are very specifc non-profit corporations that have very specific laws governing its activities. "I think that the real question is, does the union want to make its educational materials widely available or not and, if the latter, does it want to do as good a job as Gotham did?" Gotham Sound is a retail sales and rental operation bearing almost no similarity in structure, finances or legal status to a labor union... they are just completely different sorts of busineses. "If it doesn't do as good a job, is it a matter of legal impediments or a matter of simply not having the vision that the Gotham seminar demonstrated?" I don't think vision has anything to do with it. Gotham thought it was a good idea to put on a seminar type gathering and it was a really good thing for all of us, including for Gotham's primary business which is NOT education but rather Sales and Rentals. Our Local Union, mandated by Federal law, is required in certain ways to provide education and training, and Contract Services (the EMPLOYER) also has an obligation to provide education and training (and some of the expense of these classes, seminars and so forth are paid for by Contract Services to meet their legal obligation). Our Local did not have any special vision, we just did our own thing for our membership. "If the explanation is legal impediments, then as someone who has spent time representing some of North America's larger labour unions, I don't get it." Well, I'm sorry you don't get it, but even with all of your experience the one bit of experience you don't have is being an elected Executive on the Board of Directors for I.A. Local 695. "If it is a lack of vision, then maybe the union should talk to the people who did the Gotham seminar with a view to learning a few things." There you go again with the "vision" thing. I also think you are way too hung up on the Gotham event. It was good but it is really only one of many such events that have been put on. What was somewhat unique to Gotham's presentation was the level of public promotion for the event --- this obviously made a big impression on you. It would be quite naive to assume that much of this was done to promote Gotham's core business as well. "If the union doesn't get on the phone to the people in New York who put that seminar on, its representatives are daft." Unfortunately, much of our union representation IS daft, starting at the top with the International President, Tom Short. I would not consider myself daft but I also have no intention of getting on the phone to talk to the people at Gotham (except maybe to order some Swiss mic cable that they distribute). "I have worked with unions for which this would be seen as a major opportunity, not as a reason to run scared from their own membership." You must have worked with unions that are considerably more enlightened than the I.A. "Myself, I just want the DVD. Where do I send my cheque?" Don't hold your breath. The I.A. is not in the business of selling DVD's. Unfortunately, they are not even in the business of properly representing labor, the dues paying membership that has made the I.A. leadership wealthy. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I would gladly pay for a DVD of these seminars. I think it's only fair to the 695 Members !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I need to state here that I agree completely in principle that these events, most of which I had a lot to do with conceiving, arranging and organizing for our union, should be available to ALL interested parties not just union members. That said, I am also painfully aware of how the I.A. operates and our Local in particular, and I know that this will not be easy within the present structure of our union. There are many, many seriously dysfunctional aspectgs of our Local and the International, things that have plagued the progress of unionism in its purest sense. I have always maintained that the I.A. should let everyone who even has a passing interest in working in the industry, join the union (at a very basic entry level), pay the initiation, pay the dues, provide education and training by veteran craft workers, then let the marketplace decide who works and who doesn't. If it turns out to be your calling and you can have a successful career, this is good. If it does not work out, you withdraw from the union and do something else. I will continue to explore how we can manage the physical materials that are being generated by these events, video and written material, and we can hope that some of these things can be made available for all. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 695 should make the seminars available on the web free w/o a password. Local 16 (SF) does this with all kinds of material relevant to the work of its members. Unless 695 already has a system set up to sell merchandise (like DVDs) and people on board to do the fulfilliment, then making and selling the DVDs will be more trouble than it is worth. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackflowers18 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 What they mean that they just not right in your assumption that a union can disseminate educational material to a wider public and this should not be a problem ________________ California Criminal Defense Attorney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 " What they mean that they just not right in your assumption that a union can disseminate educational material to a wider public and this should not be a problem " Say What?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 " What they mean that they just not right in your assumption that a union can disseminate educational material to a wider public and this should not be a problem " Say What?? Exactly. If you click on the link at the bottom of his post you'll see that he's an attorney (not that there's anything wrong with that) but I would hope he proof reads his legal writings some what better. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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