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"They'll Fix It In Post.... Right?" Gotham Sound Seminar


OutstandingSound4Picture

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I recently received a message regarding this seminar in New York sponsored by Gotham Sound and Sennheiser:

http://www.imakenews.com/gothamsound/e_article001889953.cfm?x=bhvvrqf,bl1pnc1n

This is a topic which interests me because I have a background in music and studio production and when I tracked an artist or band I was the person who mixed the recording, too.

Nowadays when I am doing location work I am either mixing split tracks on boom and wireless lav jobs or handing over my work as an ISO multi-track. I have no control as to how my source files are being mixed in post. I am not sure the video editors understand what to do with multi-tracks or how to mix sound at all. I know the tools available in FCP or Soundtrack Pro to handle audio are fairly clumsy compared to the power built into even inexpensive DAW software.

Anyone have any insight as to how to work with video editors and post? War stories maybe? Is there a need for the location mixer to become involved in post? On the picture end there are many people working as 'preditors' - shooters who are editing their own footage. That means the shooter has some say in what his or her final product looks like.

Just curious.

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" any insight as to how to work with video editors and post? War stories maybe?...?? "

yes, of course,  there has been lots of discussion along these lines, both directly, and peripherally!

as the old saying goes: this could fill books...

experienced / inexperienced...

big budget, low budget, no budget...

tested workflow, time and $$

no plan, no time, no $$$

"  there are many people working as 'preditors'  "

aka "wunderkinds", producer-director-writer-DP editor, and even star!

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Depends on the budget and producers. Unless you have the luxury of choosing to work only on high-end projects. Many times the video editor will do the post audio. (bad idea) Many video editors are totally confused with audio, from terminology, TC, sample rates, mixing, peak levels and ref. levels. On the other hand, contact the post- facility, (if there is one) prior to shooting, for TC, frame rate and other issues. In either case, your production tracks could be embellished or trashed, basically, out of our control. I have the same background, and offer lower budget clients post-production services.

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i would be happy if the editor would do THEIR (his/her) job. However, there is no work-in-isolation in making cinema. Therefore editors HAVE to know what SOUND is doing at least to an extent. How far? At least for them to know how to ingest audio from production tracks, how to maintain edls and make change lists and relay them with re-edits, how to match back audio to picture and so much more - of course in a film workflow. Does not mean that a video/non-film workflow is simpler. On the contrary it can be a lot more complicated!

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  • 8 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I do alot of audio post for ad agencies and production companies. Alot of the time I don't know who did location audio. My job usually is at the end when the video is already approved by te client and there often wanting a finished product same day. Usually I'll get an omf with the embedded audio from the video editor. After listening to the content I'll determine what I actually have ( boom, lav, both, etc ) and determine if what I have is suitable for a good mix. An OMF should contain the uncompressed audio with tc, but is usually always 16bit. If it's VO or if I have access to the original recorded audio I will usually replace everything just to be sure I'm getting the vest possible audio for the job. I would love to see better communication in audio throughout the whole production. I think the answer is being proactive and help educating the producers who manage the workflow.

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That's good to know that final cut / avid are 24 bit compatible for exporting omf's. Providing the source audio is also 24 bit and not simply adding 8 extra bits to pre existing recorded 48k 16 bit audio recorded to camera.

That's a big proviso. Unless you're using top-notch equipment, most "24 bit" recorders barely make 96 dB dynamic range on the analog inputs. Even current SD and Zax isn't going to top ~19 bits' worth from their analog ins.

The big advantage of 24 bit files, IMHO, is the extra resolution once you start doing intensive math for volume or eq changes... which probably shouldn't be done until audio post anyway. So for a lot of projects, keeping a CLEAN 16-bit workflow through pix should be sufficient. You can add the extra zeroes when you start working on the sound edit.

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And welcome to the esteemed Mr. Rose -- you do good work. thumbsup.gif

I agree that post doesn't really need 24-bit files until they do actual dialog editing and the final mix. Truncating to 16 bits will work fine for the offline edit. There are numerous workflow methods for sound post to replace the OMF-exported temp files with original production sound, including Assemblerator.

--Marc W.

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I try to get editors to set their FCP systems for 24 bit. On all the double system jobs we do (think Canon 5D etc) the production sound is 24 bit, and the better hi def cameras are 20 or 24. Why take all the audio down to 16 in the edit system, OMF it out at 16, and then work it at 24 in audio post? These sorts of jobs are never reconformed from original files.

phil p

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